White House insiders: Trump ordered Sean Spicer to lie about crowd sizes because he was "demoralized"

…said the kitties, when the milk ran dry.

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This is the first test, in our lifetimes at least, of how well the American political system can hold up to a sociopath of this caliber.

I’m interested in seeing how it turns out.

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This sort of temperamental volatility and craving for constant adulation makes me wonder how he will possibly hold it together if he encounters a situation(hardly implausible if, say, congressional procedural rules-lawyers get involved, or something descends into litigation) that ends up being a tedious war of attrition; without either sweet, sweet, victory or a nice, obvious, target to go shout at.

Normally, horrifically tedious procedural attrition stuff, while nobody likes it, is fairly easy to deal with(it can even be a valuable tactic when trying to beat down irksome public interest/activist types who can’t afford aides and lawyers to just keep punching the clock; and who need to maintain public interests); you just delegate the daily grind to suitably qualified minions and receive summaries as events warrant.

Mr. Trump…does not…seem like he would be capable of doing that. How are they going to keep him on the rails once he runs out of stuff he can just executive-order without tedious procedural hurdles?

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They sleep just fine:

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We’re gonna need allot.

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Get used to it, America. This is the next four years.

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You mean after all this other ‘stuff’?: http://www.track-trump.com/

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Domestic abuse is a breach in trust stemming from the assumption of love. The abused is specifically a victim because they are trapped in complex emotions that, at their core, demand trust of the abuser.

These people are cold, calculating opportunists who have assumed their positions to gain or exert power and control. There is no betrayal of trust here, there is no betrayal of love; this is callow opportunism.

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You’re not crazy. I think they’re walking on eggshells trying to placate the tyrant–and television isn’t cutting it because everybody on the news hates him (in other words, tells the truth). Unfortunately, the people who displease him are likely to be targeted. More unfortunately, those people are us. According to Spicer, the Presidency hasn’t been any fun for his excellency because we ruined it with our marches and fake crowd sizes, and complaining. It’s our fault, you see. So when he instills martial law it’ll be our fault. We made him do it.

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Perhaps I’m just letting my distaste for the people who would be willing to align themselves with this particular cause cloud my judgement; but while I’m sure that some of the tactics for creating dependence in people weaker than you are reusable across a wide variety of cases; there seems to be at least a massive difference in degree; and likely one in kind.

It is probably true that Trump’s minions(at least the ones not drawn from the ‘The Presidency is now a Family Business’ side) are eating a certain amount of shit in order to enjoy more power than they otherwise would be able to, they are drawn from (at a minimum) the not-especially-prestigious-but-reasonably-comfortable low end talking head/3rd rate think tank/etc. class of political hacks; so they have options; and they also have a pretty limited risk of being assaulted, raped, or murdered; don’t have to worry about child custody, and so on.

I don’t envy their work environment; but they aren’t economic conscripts there because they lack other options; the character of their boss has been a matter of rather lurid record since at least the 80s; and if they do decide to walk the odds of reprisal beyond inability to get a job with the organization in the future seem limited.

I agree that there are some overlaps in terms of strategy, probably because (humans being mostly similar psychologically) the same basic suite of tactics for abusing the weak crop up over and over; but those tactics crop up in situations that differ considerably in terms of difficulty of exit, absolute risk, knowledge of what you were getting yourself into, etc.

Trump’s minions strike me as more similar to the people who go into a notoriously hostile field like investment banking on the assumption that the assorted sadistic hazing inflicted on the newbs will be worth it once they reach the ‘enormous pots of money’ stage. Your other options aren’t as lucrative; but you have them; and they aren’t going to hunt you down and kill you if you decide that no reward is worth this.

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I’m interested terrified in seeing how it turns out.
FTFY

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As a long time yoga teacher, I have seen this kind of relationship go on many times between yoga teachers and students. Xeni has posted about one of these teachers, Birkram Choudhury, many times.

A lot of times, the student has been warned about the teacher’s behavior by others, but they believe that they can get something out of the relationship without suffering the harmful consequences. I’ve seen it so many times. It’s like, yeah, he’s a douche BUT he is really amazing at what he does SO I’ll suck up to him and I am going to be the one who doesn’t get burned by him. I see what he is like, but I am in control of this situation because I see what he is like.

And then they start having to dance for their guru but they convince themselves they are not being hurt, they are in control.

I have a rule about people like this - RUN!

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And I do not want to denigrate abused women and say they are as bad as Trump minions…that is total character assassination.
All are good points, I just think this could be another way to look at their crazy, effed up situation. Call it alternative empathy.

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Baghdad Sean.

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That’s playing with fire. Literally. Ouch!

I don’t think you are being unfair to Trump’s minions. The case for the similarity is that our brains work on heuristics that deal similarly with very different situations - a person who has their actual life threatened might have a similar emotional response to a person who merely has their ego threatened by an internet comment.

At the same time, while we often can’t control our feelings, grown ups are supposed to be able to control their actions despite those feelings. For many victims of real abuse, sneering advice to “just leave” is actually oversimplifying the situation. I can’t say, “Look, I know it’s hard, but you’ve got to grow up and make the right choice,” because there are a lot of factors to consider and I’m not in a position to say what the right choice is.

But with Spicer, I feel totally comfortable saying that exact thing. I know it can be hard to go against your emotions, but the man ought to grow up and make the right choice. If he came out today and said, “Forget it, I can’t work under these conditions. Donald Trump personally ordered me to lie about crowd sizes. This is just too absurd.” He wouldn’t be out on the street, he wouldn’t have a violent ex stalking him, he wouldn’t have to worry about having to feed his kids. He could have a ghost writer pen him a best selling book, do the talk show circuit, and probably get elected as a champion of a new movement of “reasonable” republicans.

This is all assuming, though, that he doesn’t know something we don’t know. I can’t rule out the possibility that going against Trump puts a person in actual physical danger.

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You should show all your new students Kumare to open their eyes.

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That looks useful.

This is who we now have as President:

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