White House insiders: Trump ordered Sean Spicer to lie about crowd sizes because he was "demoralized"

Absolutely. Many of the accusations leveled at Trump are weird because they’re associated with pathologies and dynamics that are typically applied to families and individual interactions. I maintain a heady annoyance with people throwing out “abusive,” “gaslighting,” etc. with regards to Trump. He’s a politician and performer. The correct words are “being an asshole” and “lying.” The need to pathologize him and his following and claim exceptionalism is really troubling. It was only yesterday that it hit me: Even Americans on the left (despite claiming otherwise) really believe that we’re special! No, we’re not. People can behave very badly, and given the right infrastructure, atrociously. People throw out Hitler and Stalin accusations like candy, but forget the lessons of their reigns: They are enabled by the intelligent people surrounding them who found their tactics useful. They didn’t have special personality powers.

It’s not part of some thought germ that has improbably afflicted us, it’s not because Trump was dropped as a baby, it’s not because of some convenient personality disorder. Put away your DSMs, your calipers, and your brain scans: Stop trying to explain this in terms of some bizarre happenstance, some scientific museum curiosity. This is America, red, raw, and ugly. It’s not a sickness, because at least on some level, it’s who we are.

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That’s a natural reaction. You’re seeing him go apeshit over nothing, and your brain is trying to extrapolate from “nothing” to “something.” We intuitively seek patterns of a certain complexity, especially in situations that normally have a certain complexity to them, like human behavior.

But that’s exactly why people like Trump, who are broken in extraordinary ways, are so hard to figure. The pattern is that every stimulus–nothing, something, a lot, less than nothing, good attention, bad attention, no attention, whatever–is going to provoke this exact reaction, just like it has for the last 70 years of his life.

In a situation that seems like it should be this fraught with complexity, your brain wants a richly detailed Netflix Original Series. But instead it’s getting a sine wave on an oscilloscope. The effect of people like him, in situations where they can’t be ignored, is that you have to make the conscious effort to remind yourself that you’re not the crazy one. There’s only what you’re seeing.

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Lizard people do not require sleep, foolish mortal.

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A little story called “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” sets an awful precedent (president?)

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My take is that the Trump minions are more like true believers in a cult of personality… These are traditionally outcast individuals with high opinions of themselves (but the world just doesn’t understand them!). Trump is the first person of status to ‘believe in them’ and his support is intoxicating… They’ve created a surrogate family and an attack on dear leader is an attack on the family, and so the wagons are circled every time. I’m sure there are those among them like Bannon who are using him in a more Machiavellian way, but Spicer and Kellyanne seem like they’re in it for the membership card.

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Terrifying study here, and goes right into what people are saying in this thread about cults:

On the other hand, the Trump administration already accuses others of producing “fake news,” and instead offers its own (false) “alternative facts.” If a significant portion of Trump supporters are willing to champion obvious fabrications, challenging fabrications with facts will be difficult.

Facts don’t matter. Expressing loyalty to your team matters more.


Edit: There was a study discussed here, I believe, that talked about offering respondents token amounts of money for the correct answer, and how that almost eliminated partisan “expressive responding,” and got people to admit the truth. Seems relevant here.

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The difference is, we won’t rest until things are better.

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I appreciate the sentiment, but we don’t say that anymore.

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I’m not sure if I buy this “Trump’s a big man-baby” story as any indication of the success of his administration… It just seems like the media is again being distracted by the fucking sideshow, while a very structured set of polices are being moved forward. Clearly someone in his camp knows what they are doing because it looks like contrary to our hopes, the GOP is confirming all his insane cabinet and declining to even investigate the Russian connection or conflicts of interest. The GOP is not back-biting or falling on their faces; this outburst is just a facade of disorder. I hope I’m wrong, but I think that Trump’s team are competently moving their agenda through while he dances like a clown for the cameras. We have to stop chasing the fucking carrot– the media needs to shape the narrative, not the other way around.

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I’d be unsurprised to hear that The Donald wants his Unitary Executive Commander in Chief powers to include having his Secret Service detail and/or the CIA execute his enemies(and, given Bush and Obama administration ‘precedent’, that might be uncomfortably close to true); but given the amount of time Trump spent doing deals of severely dubious cleanliness in the renowned-for-having-absolutely-no-organized-crime-affiliations-whatsoever world of casinos; if he had a real taste for terminating former associates I would have expected at least some lurid gossip to that effect.

Given that he currently controls the patronage spigot; and has a deeply strained relationship with ‘conventional’ republican figures, I imagine that his flacks don’t necessarily have alternatives quite as cushy as those of some other presidents; but none of them are hapless residents of a decaying town where it’s either doing whatever your boss at the chicken processing plant tells you to; or trying to make a living slinging meth.

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My fear too. Trump and his team have clearly studied the arts of mass manipulation. There does seem to have been a pattern, for instance, of Trump firing off “outrageous” tweets that get all the attention right when other, more substantial outrages were happening, outrages that thus get more or less ignored.

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The two aren’t really mutually exclusive: Republicans(and mostly establishment ones who don’t owe their positions to Trump) have a pretty solid position in Congress; and VP Pence is a chillingly solid lawful-ish evil party man; so Trump would have to be quite actively sabotaging his own people to prevent things from going fairly well for him when it comes to the orderly rubber stamping of matters in those areas.

In areas where all the ducks aren’t in a row, though, he can’t seem to resist losing his shit; regardless of the pointlessness(Being president doesn’t require winning the popular vote, having the largest inaugural crowd, or getting the press to say nice things about you; but he keeps hammering on them as though they were actually important issues). I suspect that the just-get-things-done-as-fast-as-possible crowd appreciates the fact that the distraction keeps him out of their hair; and provides something for the chattering classes to chatter about; so it’s quite true that his unhinged style doesn’t seem to be slowing them down; but it’s still pretty unhinged.

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On Teh Twits, too:

https://twitter.com/track_trump

“Demoralized?”

Oh silly, Donny; you’d have to have some morals in the first place for that to even be possible!

But if the feeling that was meant to be expressed is that Donny-boy feels reviled and unloved

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Yes, it does seem a bit too clever that he’d be intentionally performing the circus to provide cover; everything we know about him suggests that he is genuinely this incredibly shallow. But even if it is unintentional, the garbage he is serving up to the media continues to make the story about the MAN and not the fucking crazy shit that his team is doing/plan to do. The media just can’t help themselves, but they need to try and tamp that shit down. This isn’t a gameshow and we need to stop covering it like one.

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I think that Trump’s unpopularity would actually be a real boon to someone who very publicly broke with him and was willing to tell stories of how unhinged he was. Obviously that would be burning some bridges, but it would be forging others.

I think we probably underestimate how many people use words functionally in the first place. If you spend time around little kids, you’ll hear them say all kinds of things that flatly aren’t true but that clearly are meant to achieve a certain result, and I don’t think people change that much from childhood. Instead, you see an increase in sophistication in picking the right words to get the right effect.

Formulating a coherent idea (as opposed to desired outcome) and then choosing words to try to communicate that idea is something that, I think, we learn through education because education requires us to have this skill to function properly. There are no performative words to give someone the ability to do calculus; at some point you need to actually be able to explain a the concepts in the abstract. (I’m not demeaning people who have poor educations, just pointing out that they are obviously going to lack certain tools. I was recently in a position where I couldn’t fix my cabinet door because I didn’t have a drill - that doesn’t say anything about my quality or value as a person.)

Education was a big predictor of support for Trump, so you would expect a larger proportion of people with lower education in Trump’s group. People with poor education are probably more likely to use language in a functional rather than a meaning-based way. But a person who doesn’t tend to rely on meaning-based language is also not going to think that other people do either, just like a person who is bad at chess is going never going to understand the strategy of a grand master even after they lose to them.

So I wonder, what did they think that second question was really asking? If I participate in a study like that, I assume the goal is to have me answer every question very plainly. I usually guess that psychology studies are trying to trick me in some way, but they want to figure out my genuine response to their trick. I know what they are doing and why. A Trump supporter faced with, “Which is Trump’s inauguration?” followed by “Which has more people?” may not take that situation into account. They interpret the questions the way you would interpret them if your schoolyard rival asked them - that is, the second question isn’t asking which photo they think has more people, it’s rubbing it in that Obama had a bigger crowd.

Because of this, I’m not sure the interpretation of the responses is correct. Some of those people may have been well aware which picture had more people, but have said something untrue not to show loyalty, but instead to throw a wrench into the works of someone who they perceived as making fun of them. And in a way, they are actually reading the situation right. Right now I’m sure there are people making fun of them (even though they are making fun of them for giving the answer the gave). One way or another this study was going to be used as fuel for insults.

I think Trump speaks functionally rather than meaningfully pretty much all the time. He doesn’t lie, he says what he thinks will achieve a result without even considering what the truth is. He may have a poor grasp of meaningful communication and it’s possible he never even told Spicer to lie - he just told Spicer to utter the words he wanted uttered (of course, for Spicer, they were lies).

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If we’re getting reports from “‘nearly a dozen’ White House staffers”, then it seems to me we may have less to fear from Trump’s war on truth and attempts at muzzling than we might expect…

… or, alternatively, this is a reality television star’s clever attempt to further distract people from other more horrible things he might be doing, for what better distraction is there than juicy insider gossip?

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This, a hundred times over. Without the help of the GOP’s special brand of sycophant, trump wouldn’t be able to enter the fucken building. He wouldn’t know what documents to sign or write or threaten to sign or write because he doesn’t know jack shit about governance. If Spicer had even the smallest granule of integrity he would’ve refused. And by the same token, if the GOP had the slightest integrity/honor they would’ve been raising hell about any number of trump’s “investigatables”, and yet all we hear is a clapping claque eager to flush America’s political norms down the drain for their own personal profit.

You might even say this is Late Stage Capitalism.

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I had a slightly related thought. Turmp seems nearly incapable of trust, so what does it tell us that he trusts his family so unquestioningly? If I was going to guess, I’d guess he’s a domestic tyrant who’s spent their whole lives making sure they’re afraid of him even when he’s not in the room (whatever else may be true).

I agree, but I would say that kind of hazing is an abusive personal relationship. Hopefully the sex element is missing, but in a cult of personality, the minions’ feelings for the leader are a pathological version of love, just like what an abused spouse feels. When you surrender to someone else’s version of reality, they become your only connection to the world you’ve chosen to live in, and you see them as part of you, and can’t imagine how you could exist without them. Not all abusive relationships are physically violent, but that twisted version of love is what stops abuse victims leaving.

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Related GIF is related:

(See also both he and his shitheel son monitoring their wives’ ballots on election day.)

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