Like I said, it will have the same ultimate effect as voting for Jill Stein.
[ETA: Ninja’d by @Skeptic}
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I look at libertarianism as “Fascism for one”. They’ve got all sorts of philosophies and arguments, but in the end, they are really nothing more than a bunch of wanna-be dictators who desire absolute control of their half-acre suburban kingdoms.
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@Medievalist lives in MD, I think? In which case the same is also true for voting for Trump.
It’s not even that benign. Because with libertarianism you can just take other people’s stuff, too - just move your property line wherever you want, and no need for a trash collector when you can just dump your trash on other people’s property. What are they going to do, call the government?
Libertarianism is a form of anarchy. Oh sure, libertarians still say they support courts, but without a robust government and system of laws to keep people from having to go to court in the first place, the rich and the powerful will control the court outcomes just as they do now, and over much more. Court justice is related to how much money you can spend on lawyers. That will only become worse under libertarianism.
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Wrong on point 1, right on point 2.
Nope.
Putting aside the very real issue of building the vote - your logic is fundamentally broken if you think you can go from no votes to winning in a single election - I think I’ve been pretty clear about the source of my behavior.
I won’t compromise my religious beliefs or morals out of fear of either of the major party candidates. They simply are not that scary to me. One of them will win, and that will be bad for me and my family, and we’ll persevere, and maybe next time around the rest of the voters will have learned something.
@Daneel, no, I’m in DE. Solid Democrat territory, at least in the more populous north where I am. 15 minutes from MD, 25 minutes from NJ, 10 minutes from PA. But you are still right!
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The first thing that “libertarianism” stole was it’s name
Seventeen years (1857) after Proudhon first called himself an anarchist (1840), anarchist communist Joseph Déjacque was the first person to describe himself as a libertarian. Outside the United States, “libertarian” generally refers to anti-authoritarian anti-capitalist ideologies.
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Ah, but to her it is not an insult. Don hates it when people point out he’s not really a billionaire
Oh, and I am an unapologetic Clinton supporter. She’s going to make a great president.
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I am literally not sure this country will survive to be around for a next time if Donald Trump wins.
There’s really no easier way for Russia to get a leg up than to destabilize the US by helping a pathologically lying narcacist with a fondness for fellow autocrats get elected. After all of those years of Cold War posturing it will be tremendously ironic if Russia damages the US by aiding the US damage itself through our flawed democratic process.
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I feel the pain and duty of those who wish to make a protest vote. However such a move (this time around) is empty, and in reality supports the most dangerous and reckless individual to ever come this close to winning the White House.
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If you really want to make a difference via third party candidates you don’t start at the top, you build up from the grassroots level. Get more Green Party candidates in local offices, then statewide offices, and finally national office. Want to convince the voters that a Green is ready to run the country? Then put some in the Senate or elect some as state governors. All the principles in the world don’t matter if you can’t demonstrate an ability to actually put together some kind of coalition of supporters and get things done.
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Let’s see he doesn’t believe in climate change, opposes federal support of student loans, opposes having ANY minimum wage, opposes equal pay laws, opposes gun control, opposes unions, wants to privatize medicare and medicaid, wants to cut social security, wants to dismantle the public school system, and is a BIG supporter of private prisons.
He has used dirty tricksters to campaign for him:
And, well, a vote for him helps Trump.
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Ah right, yet another scary scary Thing that’s supposed to scare voters into voting for Clinton. The Russians will get us!! That shit’s just, old.
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@Brainspore, Working on all those things, and more.
@TheBobD, Ugh, didn’t know he supported private prisons. Thanks! Gives me more ammo for persuading the local libertarians not to support him.
But around here Johnson is pulling votes from the Republicans, so it’s actually hurting them. I have to be careful who I try to persuade!
Perhaps you could name another presidential candidate who was as fond of and deferential to Putin, or the current leader of Russia or the Soviet Union in the past, as Donald Trump? Or another candidate who’s as big on excusing Russian expansionism? Or who’s as big on torture? An as big on isolationism?
The math is simple, a win by Trump is a win for Putin. Really.
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That makes no sense. If your vote for Jill Stein doesn’t matter in the terms of the election results, then neither their votes for Johnson. Either the Third Party candidate votes don’t matter or they do. You can’t have it both ways in your community.
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Anyone voting for Gary Johnson (or Jill Stein) in any state that is not 100% safe for Hillary is effectively voting for Donald Trump. Voting is not therapy. Don’t be a douche bag.
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It’s the same story every election. The fate of civilization rides on the outcome of that other person not getting elected. Seriously, when in the last several elections was that NOT the party line? Is there any version of reality in which during the next election they’ll say, “You know, that last election was really important but for this one it’s not a big deal if you vote third party rather than our candidate?” No? But we’re supposed to keep buying the same scare tactics over and over? I guess go ahead and fill out your absentee ballot for the next 10 elections. They already own your vote.
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Personally, I think of voting as much less of a moral endorsement than that, so when the differences are liable to hurt people you should always go with the lesser evil in a swing state. But in a state that is secure for one side or the other, all the reason behind that evaporates.
In that case the only effect your vote could potentially have is on statistics. In which case I’d rather not give the Democratic party more endorsement than they need, and registering that there are also people who care more about the environment than them instead of less seems as positive as anything. Particularly since the weaknesses people claim about Jill Stein as a candidate don’t matter if she won’t win. No, you can’t expect much from that kind of vote, but I don’t see any better strategy for how to use it.
So while I might disagree with some of your philosophy behind it, I don’t know any solid reason to think this kind of vote is unreasonable, and think it’s unfair just how much hostility it tends to get anyway. So I thought I might pitch in and let you know that at least some of us strategic voting proponents think you have a point.
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Can you really deny that Trump is the least qualified GOP candidate ever? Can you remember any GOP candidate who had a love affair for the Russian dictator at the time? Can you think of any GOP candidate has lied as much in so many completely demonstrable ways?
This election really is exceptional.
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That is untrue! They take care of corporate citizens and majoritarian populations. All to ensure might will make right.
(I can’t do the Modusoperandi snark like him. He is the undisputed master of “the Poe”)
There is a boneheaded intersection between corporatism, pro-corruption and pro-discrimination ideas running through Libertarian platforms.
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