Why Tom Morello and Ted Nugent are friends

The thing is, most people don’t change, especially as they get older; they become more entrenched in their world view.

No, not “all repubs are Nazis,” even the ones who voted for 45; as there are no absolutes.


Being biracial, a hefty chunk of my mom’s side of the family are bigots or bigot-adjacent… and I don’t fuck with them. Period.

Now I’m not saying that anyone should do as I do;
I’m just saying that if anyone ever comes for me with nefarious intent, they’ll have to stab me in the front, rather than in my back.


Sherlock: Take precautions, Watson.


Indubitably; the people who would see folks like us eradicated are calling for ‘war’, and have no intentions of ‘playing fair.’


It’s their funeral. :woman_shrugging:


No doubt, but I thought those weren’t the people under discussion here.

Yes, if shit ever does go down and a civil war breaks out, then the ones in the gray/moderate realms of the right are likely to break in that direction, and fuck them if they do. But in the meantime, I’m not going to dismiss them as irredeemable.

(And of course, as you say, I’m not saying that anyone should do as I do.)


Why is that? It’s all intertwined, is it not? I have a first cousin who is/was so hard core Trumper that I disowned him back in 2016 out of genuine concern for my personal safety.

That’s the worse case scenario which many people seem worried about, when it seems much more likely that if it all does come to a violent head, we’ll probably be dealing with something more like the Troubles in Ireland.

Either way, it’s not a desirable outcome.

Again more power to anyone who feels that way.

As a marginalized person in this country, I personally can’t afford to take such risks.

Each of us has to do whatever is in our own best interests.

All I know is that whenever the shit finally hits the fan, I will not ‘go gentle.’


One never knows who will put you up in their proverbial attic if the shit hits the fan I guess, but then those same people can also rat you out if it gets bad enough for them too. And how choosey can one really be at one time vs another too. That also depends.

The fact that on some level we are discussing what circle of friends trans people should trust to hide them in the event of some kind of straight up fascist purge though… God damn.


If Victoria’s friends are like the one I mentioned far above, they genuinely don’t believe that there’s a serious threat from the right (I know, but low information means clueless) and if one manifests, it would definitely wake them up from their privledged slumber. I also know that my friend absolutely would hide my family in his attic and would rather die himself than betray that. Personal loyalty is one of his defining qualities and one of the reasons I’m his friend.


I genuinely wish I had that much faith in others…


Oh yeah I mean I know a lot of people who truly don’t believe there is any real risk. I would say likely most people agree with that in my perception.


Even if it’s not intentional or malicious, such obliviousness could readily get someone hurt or killed.

And with that, I am starting to bum myself out; I think it’s time to bow out of this conversation now.


Not arguing here, at all. Want to add, though, from my POV, I kind of feel like it’s inherent on me to use my privilege as a white cis-het woman in the US to maintain those bridges of communication with my “nice” yet Trumpy neighbors. I might be the only place they hear why limiting reproductive care is wrong, or how our systems are racist.
I’m not saying everyone needs to feel this way, but in my interactions with some of my neighbors who are friendly but definitely not my friends, I feel like I make a little bit of difference. And to me, that’s worth maintaining friendly relations, at least for now.


Yeah totally true. It really shocks me that right as cps is being ordered to track trans kids, and our atty general demanded a list of trans people’s names and addresses, and all the “pedogroomingchildeating” wave of complete dehumanization and demonization in public discourse, and politicians and “thought leaders” openly gloating over mass shootings and murders…

All that is happening now in the real world but somehow it doesn’t matter, isn’t real, isn’t what it looks like?

I see why so many people die on train tracks I guess.


I feel like people imagine the holocaust was this big obvious thing where everyone could see the executions and piles of corpses, where to most Germans it was functionally not that different from the draft – some of their neighbors were taken away and didn’t come back.

Good people care about other people. If someone can hear them being threatened constantly and shrug it off, there is something missing from them.


They forget it was a revelation. It’s always a revelation though.


Check This Out GIF


Or as it might likely appear here: people being recommended to treatment centers and required to undergo some kind of involuntary treatment at a rehabilitation facility etc. From there it can become a black hole no one notices with how bad it gets up to the whims of the institutions and communities in charge of them. Consider how life has been in covid for people like violent teen offenders in prisons. We know… On some level we just don’t care or consider it too much trouble to do anything about. That moral decision can be extended to other people easily in an ever broadening wave of apathy and contempt.


I think you really have to ask yourself if these people are really your friend if they’d invite you to a gathering where you’d feel unsafe… of why they’d have such a gathering with people like that at all.

Why? I mean, we’re talking about the humanity of others… hell, YOUR humanity.

I’m sorry, but those of us demanding basic rights for our friends, family, ourselves, etc, are NOT the cause of a civil war if it comes. We are NOT the ones wishing death upon our neighbors. We’re not the ones showing up at right wing churches threatening them with guns. We’re not the ones demanding that basic rights be taken away from them. None of that is from those of us who are refusing to be in that gray zone. There are people who want civil war, because they know that they can get away with murdering a whole bunch of “enemies” (who are really just people that scare or anger them - LGBQT+, loud mouth cisgendered women, racial minorities who demand equal rights, and so on). I doubt the people who just don’t seem to care are going to be swayed by you keeping their friendship, despite them holding bigoted views, or just not caring enough to NOT vote for the bigot. They may not really hate trans people, for example, but if they go vote for Greg Abbott or Ron Desantis or Kristi Noem, or Trump, they KNOW they are voting against basic human rights for trans people. They are openly declaring that they do not care about your basic human rights by voting for these scum. They might care about you, they just don’t care if you live in a society that wants to refuse you basic health care…

The only reason why the siege of Sarajevo ended, was because NATO forced it to end eventually. These were largely independent militia groups sitting up in the hills sniping off random people for several years. The only reason why the rump Yugoslav Army did not march into Kosovo and ethnically cleanse the place was because Clinton order airstrikes. He saved thousands of lives in doing so. Milosevic and his staunchest backers did not want to end the war there. And it very well might start again over fucking license plates and voting…

And let’s not forget Northern Ireland, where the Catholic minority and many protestants voted to end the Troubles, there was a contingent of on both sides were not happy about the accords, and have tried very hard to get things started again in the wake of brexit… in the right condition, things could flare up there.

So, not there isn’t always a red phone, especially in conflicts like Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland, Israeli/Palestine, etc, because there is someone who benefits from said conflict and wants it to continue…

And that’s nice, and it sometimes works, but not always. You do what you can, but the reality is that ideology is strong and isn’t always responsive to what you might consider rationalitiy. Ideology has it’s own set of internal logic that makes sense to the people inside it, because it is confirmed by their own experiences and biases. That is part of our postmodern condition, and it’s a reality we have to face. We live in a society that has so dismissed and belittled the humanities (literature, art, and culture is seen as a commodity instead of an important expression of our humanity, history and other kinds of social studies are treated like a political football, people invoke science to support their arguments, often without a real understand of the scientific method, etc), that we have a hard time actually understanding stuff outside our own experiences. That makes things difficult for even those of us who like to think we’re edumacated so imagine for people who do not have access to a great eduation or who have been told it’s not cool to value education outside of job training. That of course is the outcome of an educational system that wants to train people for jobs, rather than help people become well-rounded, and knowledgeable about the world in a humble kind of way, and a right wing echo-chamber that pushes for authoritarian forms of education (job training and creating nothing but square pegs).

And what about YOUR humanity? What about the humanity of all the people who are hurt because of them? Do they matter less just because they’re not friends with you and did not invite you to a BBQ? Embracing people’s humanity doesn’t just mean accepting them without judgement. Yes, we’re all flawed and messy, but many of us do not embrace politics that are actively based on hurting others. Accepting that some people are willing to hurt others, because they believe that for them to survive they have to vote against the basic humanity of other people and force them to be like them or to kill them, is also accepting part of humanity. Because that is part of humanity, because it comes out of our society. Making choices based on how people treat others is part of being human. I don’t know your friends or their politics but it might be worth it to ask them why they’re voting for who they’re voting for, and what they hope to gain by voting for fascists… Because at this point that is what the GOP actually is - a fascist party. There just isn’t any wiggle room any more.

But good luck.


No, people need to do what they need to do, and people shouldn’t shame others for whatever they decide to do to care for their mental health through these times. Sometimes that includes dumping people who are actively trying to eliminate others from their society.


All fair points! I appreciate your thoughtful perspective.