Fair, I didn’t read the whole thing.
I hope they at least lived together for a while before getting married? I will never ever ever understand people who get married without having lived together for at least one full year.
You want to understand who someone really is? Live with them for a year.
It’s a stupid custom and only perpetuates misogyny and male dominance.
For real. IME, the “roommate” stuff is actually the hardest stuff.
That’s why I stopped reading some of that style of subreddit- life’s too short to be angry all the time.
When I first became aware of this “tradition” my impression was that it was a way to break the formality (up to this point everyone has been in uncomfortable formal wear for hours and been walking on eggshells hoping not to do screw anything up in the service, lots of pressure to look perfect for pictures) and indicate that now it’s ok to cut loose, mess up your outfits, and be normal again.
My wife also made darn sure I knew that she thought it was a lousy thing to do, I thought well ok then no problemo but it did strike me as odd that it was such a big deal. I guess it is.
And, and the point that they missed went so far over their head that it left a con-trail…
No, do not forget about the consent rules ever. Consent isn’t about “someone might get hurt” due to your violation. They’ve asked you not to do a thing, you don’t do that thing, rather it’s juggle those three chainsaws close to their face or gently stroke them with the softest feather possible. You don’t actually need to even know why an activity is a no, although good communication suggests discussing these things farther to avoid other situations.
Also… I just realized that the advice columnist calls their column Dear Prudence…
When I first became aware of this “tradition” my impression was that it was a way to break the formality (up to this point everyone has been in uncomfortable formal wear for hours and been walking on eggshells hoping not to do screw anything up in the service, lots of pressure to look perfect for pictures) and indicate that now it’s ok to cut loose, mess up your outfits, and be normal again.
The mentions of it on google books and the internet archive seem almost aghast that someone would risk ruining an expensive wedding gown and a expensive wedding…
If only this was part of a required course taught to students every year, until the concept soaked into their brains…
One positive thing I’ve learned, from reading YA fiction (including Charlie Jane Anders latest, Victories Greater Than Death) , the modern kids ARE learning about consent, are DEMANDING it from others, and are calling it out when it’s not given. So there’s a lot to be hopeful for here.
I’d say yeah, and I’d further generalize it to not just at the wedding but at all times. Acting like that at the wedding is definitely a bad prognostic indicator for things to come.
Agreed. What little YA fiction I’ve read recently has been quite different than the stuff I read as a kid - the consent stuff and the young male characters taking a stand for the bodily autonomy of their female co-conspirators. It’s really refreshing!
Mod note: we have a policy against victim blaming here. That means you are welcome to your opinion of what should happen post-this-event, but not that the victim is acting in bad faith. If you cannot do that, do not post here. Very many comments that started from that position have been removed.
As an aside, I am amazed at how this conversation has gone, but probably shouldn’t be in retrospect. The same arguments questioning the voracity of the claims about the event have surfaced here as have surfaced in #metoo or assault posts - showing how clearly this is about consent, first and foremost.
If somebody does not consent to something, it is never their own fault for not saying “No” first. It is always the fault of the person who did not ask for permission first. Period.
I asked my wife her thoughts on this story. Turns out, she actually read the original Dear Prudence column. She said to me, regarding my summary, “You forgot one detail: that he held her down. That is a much bigger red flag than not just following stated boundaries”.
That small detail slipped past me skimming the article:
held there
Well, it could have been worse.
Thank you.
Let’s uh, not go down the Reddit rabbit hole today. I have too little respect for humanity as it is…
