Woman keys a Tesla, but the Tesla's watching

Think the camera only stores those images? You just confirmed my point how stories like this make surveillance look good. All you need is to have confidence that people who have access to all this information never abuse it, but only use it in situations you find justifiable.

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These damn Edison stans are everywhere, wishing his name was on a cool car instead.

What, is this not cool enough? :slightly_smiling_face:

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Mina Edison’s favorite, though, was the Detroit Electric Brougham:

Edison:

Some day some fellow will invent a way of concentrating and storing up sunshine to use instead of this old, absurd Prometheus scheme of fire. I’ll do the trick myself if someone doesn’t get at it. . . . Sunshine is spread out thin and so is electricity. Perhaps they are the same, but we will take that up later. . . . This scheme of combustion to get power makes me sick to think of — it is so wasteful. It is just the old, foolish Prometheus idea, and the father of Prometheus was a baboon. When we learn how to store electricity, we will cease being apes ourselves; until then we are tailless orang-outangs. You see, we should utilize natural forces and thus get all of our power. Sunshine is a form of energy, and the winds and the tides are manifestations of energy. Do we use them? Oh, no; we burn up wood and coal, as renters burn up the front fence for fuel. We live like squatters, not as if we owned the property. There must surely come a time when heat and power will be stored in unlimited quantities in every community, all gathered by natural forces. Electricity ought to be as cheap as oxygen, for it can not be destroyed.

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For the record, the US and UK have different views and a different legal system, and things get very complicated comparing stuff across that cultural divide. But I heartily invite you to CCC or re:publica (disclaimer, I won’t be there) to discuss the German approach to public and private surveillance. You’ll find plenty of people who are versed in the details of those differences, legal, cultural and philosophical underneath. What I can contribute here is a very shortened comment from the top of my head before I’m off to bed.

That’s not surveillance. Taking a photo is covered by your person right to express yourself. It’s covered under artistic freedom.
Not covered by that is even the attempt to document who was where when in a public space.

There’s public surveillance. The reason for it has to outweigh my individual rights to be legal. Private surveillance rarely does that. Taking a singular photo of a singular person can already violate their individual rights. @Avery_Thorn’s claim that I’m wrong from an ethical and legal standpoint is bullshit. Context matters, and while it might be legal in the US it gets quickly complicated e.g. in Germany. (And believe me, ethics is very much at the centre of the debate.)

The camera in front of your house in Germany better doesn’t cover the sidewalk, thank you very much. Even a dummy camera might be illegal. A car in a public space which films it’s surroundings? Well, I don’t think so. Fuck off, Tesla.

And guess what?
People do take photos around these parts. Ethically, sometimes. Legally, even most of the times.

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About six months after I bought my first new car a long time ago, some asshole keyed it for no obvious reason other than 1.) it was new and 2.) he’s an asshole

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

Does that mean that a private person’s surveillance camera that records a crime cannot be used against the perp? Just genuinely curious.

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None of the websites that I can find on German law support your claims.

Ethically speaking, if we make taking video and having fixed video cameras on the streets illegal, the only people who will have video of the streets will be the government. This means that the government could release and withhold video to frame events to their advantage. This also means that the government could edit video (or even deepfake it) and present it without worry that there would be other, contradictory video available.

German law does include a prohibition of publishing (not taking, but publishing) photos of recognizable people as the main subject of the photo without their permission. However, it specifically excludes people at newsworthy events, such as protests.

The funny thing is that the people who seem to have the most concerns about being identified from attending a protest or their actions in public here in the USA are racists and Nazis. I will presume that things are different wherever you’re from…

I’d say that ‘Occam’s Razor’ can be applied to car-keying.

Things like “How much jail time do you get for destruction of property in Colorado?” are really easy to find on Google. For example:

Colorado vandalism laws are penalized differently depending on the aggregate amount of damage to property as follows: [ ... ]

$1,000-$5,000 - Class 6 felony punishable with 12-18 months imprisonment and/or $1,000-$100,000 in fines

If a crime can get you a maximum of less than a year in jail, it’s usually a misdemeanor; if it gets you a year or more in jail, it’s usually a felony. Judges often have discretion on what kind of sentence to impose, based on things like prior criminal history and the nature of the crime. ETA: Or she could go with a plea deal instead of a trial. So you’re right in that we won’t know what the actual outcome is until (or if) she gets tried and sentenced.

Well, I stand corrected. I figured it might just be some journalist trying to talk things up. And she might still get a wristslap, but it sounds like the Colorado statute is pretty prescriptive about what is and is not a felony. Y’all throw the “felony” word around pretty lightly.

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No word on why she did it.

Obvious symbol of economic inequality?

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I’m guessing it’s similar in the US, but in the UK there’s very few places that do official Tesla repairs, so even quite small damage can rack up quickly. Of course, you could likely fix it much cheaper, but an insurance company will insist that it’s done to manufacturer standards.
(A friend had a bit of damage to his Tesla’s bumper/front wing and it ended up costing £8000+ once all the repairs and courtesy cars had been factored in. Then one of the garages involved managed to hook the main batteries up to the 12V system and fried half the car, but that’s another story).

tl/dr $2000 sounds entirely possible for an insurance estimate.

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I’m more concerned with the fact Tesla’s are connected 24/7 to Tesla HQ. Are there specifics in the terms of service about the cameras, usage, data retention, access rights, ect? Is it possible for Tesla to have video footage of a crime on their server and be issued a warrant showing the owner commited a serious crime?

I’m not opposed to surround cameras on a car, if they are only storing their data locally (preferably on a physically removable device).

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No time for long post.

BGH verdict, 16.03.2010 (VI ZR 176/09).

Try, e.g., datenschutz.rlp.de | Videoüberwachung von Haus und Grund |  and feed it to your Babel fish of choice. You might get an idea.

Presume all you like, but don’t presume that your view on ethics and law is applicable everywhere. :wink:

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I once went out with a girl who, while we were walking down the sidewalk in Chicago, keyed a Mercedes parked on the street. She didn’t understand why it bothered me and thought anyone with a Mercedes probably deserved it.

We did not have a second date.

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FTR, I just came back to check on my post. That the bullshit post saying I would be wrong got more likes than mine is duly and misanthropically noted.

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