I don’t know but getting in your car, reversing out as if to drive away, and then being stopped from doing so by one of the people alleging that she owes them an apology, it kinda looks to me as if she was trying to leave. You think maybe she should have left her car there or something?
If that was the only alternative to pulling a gun on them, then yes. But that wasn’t her only alternative was it? She could have just sat in her car and waited it out, called the police or maybe even acted like an adult and apologized.
Threatening to kill someone because you can’t back out is insane.
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I was responding to the implication that the woman should have left - she tried to do so. Also, the guy in the car was threatened (“I’m gonna beat your white ass”) - is that OK? Plus, how do you know from a video that begins after the alleged incident happened that she hadn’t already apologised? How do you know things happened the way the camera toters said they happened?
There are a ton of threads over at reddit promoting the dog whistle version of the incident (“we got ourselves another Karen”), but there is also one presenting another side to the story Might be worth having a look?
EDIT: Sorry, going on a bit but meant to also say: Guns are stupid for ordinary people to carry precisely because of things like this. I agree, she had other choices, but a gun burns a hole in someone’s consciousness - they know they have it and it becomes the object / course of action taking up most of their field of view precisely because it is such a simple way of changing the dynamic of an unfolding scenario. If the woman had used it there would have been no winners here. Who knows, maybe she’s gonna realise that having a gun isn’t for her after this - I hope so. I’m glad I don’t have access to one and live in a country where I’m unlikely ever to do so. Anyway, I’ll try and stop going on now - apologies for taking up your time.
In the past I had the chance to apply for a job in the US and I was somehow tempted, money was good and also would have meant a great leap in my career
One reason I didn’t was the health care system (granted, it could have been negotiated as part of the package but still)
But the deal breaker was this type of situation. The possibility that any minor confrontation could result in someone pulling a gun. I don’t know if this fear is justified or not, but the amount of guns on private hands in the US does not make me comfortable
I like the US, I’ve been many times for business and everybody I met were very nice but I cannot understand how people living in one of the richest and most advanced countries on earth can be so scared all the time
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Because it’s not for everyone…
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Your superiority is noted. /s
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I watched the video, but missed the part where the mother and daughter posed a threat to life to two people in an enclosed vehicle. I imagine you have to prove you feel threatened enough in your vehicle, to justify getting out of it and taking a life. I saw some crappy behavior but nothing deserving of execution. If you did let me know where in the video it is.
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yes, social injustice is everywhere, but still. I lived in three countries to date and I never seen the same level of fear that the average american experiences and I never heard of any traffic altercation ending on guns being drawn and pointed at anybody
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Sorry if that came across as patronising, I kind of meant the opposite, that is to say, I don’t think I could be trusted with a gun because of the high level of self control required. I’ve been physically attacked a couple of times in my life, not dangerously so but enough to be scared and then angry: had I had access to a deadly weapon who knows what might have happened. But then if I had grown up around guns and lived in America all my life perhaps I’d feel differently.
Anyway, no offence meant - horses for courses.
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I’m not thrilled about living in a 9.8 million square kilometer gun locker, but I appreciate your clarification.
Mind you I have no particular problem with firearms, just the fetishization of them.
But pulling a gun on someone for standing behind one’s vehicle or even slapping it is reckless escalation, not self-defense.
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But honestly it is a whites pointing guns at black people thing
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That’s the key right there. I have people like this in my life (can’t choose your family, yada yada). They have so much rage inside of them all the time that it has consumed their personality. They go around subconsciously looking for excuses to have self-righteous moments. If a moment is almost a confrontation, they’ll make it into one in order to release a tiny bit of that anger. For example, I’ve seen the person in my life accelerate their car to make someone pulling out in front be a closer call than it was so they could honk at “being cut off”. I’m lucky we live in a place where you can’t just carry guns around.
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When I took the required course for my concealed carry permit, one of the things that the instructor went over was “when is it OK to present your firearm and make ready to fire”. In almost all cases, the only time it’s OK is when the other person draws first. And TBH, while the instructor stated that training for de-escalation was outside the scope of that specific course, it is something that’s encouraged.
I think a lot of the problem is that no one wants to back down, no one wants to admit they were wrong, and certainly no one wants to turn around and walk away.
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Yes. “Assault with a deadly weapon”, which, in Arizona, IS a class 3 felony punishable by up to five years in jail, a fine up to $150,000, or both.
In Michigan, the specific is “Assault with a Deadly Weapon”, which is a felony, and carries up to 4 years in jail, a $2,000 fine, or both.
The material possessions we own alter the pathways of our brains every bit as much as the opinions we hold. I am becoming more and more convinced that it’s not as simple as “guns are innocent inanimate objects, it’s people who kill people”. I think future research will show that access to deadly weapons makes us more open to engaging in deadly interactions. You think you control the gun, but to some degree the gun ends up controlling you.
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Are you sure? I could only stand to watch it once, but don’t recall anything like her saying, “I’m sorry I bumped you.” Or even, “hey, my bad, I was in a rush. Are you okay?”
I’ll look for it, but only if you can give a time stamp. I can’t stand watching the husband ask them, “who the f&*$ do you think you are?” again.
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That brought up some creepy thoughts…
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When all you have is a hammer bullet, all your problems look like nails target practice.
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It’s a belligerent cracker problem.
When I was 11 or 12, we likes to ride our BMX bikes on a series of valleys and ridges that we called them “the dunes”. To get there, we could go the long way, or we could cut through some a corn field and down some farmer’s rutty two tracks.
Unfortunately one of the property owners, actually it’s not clear he really did own the property, but he seemed to think he owned it. Anyways, this older guy would yell at us sometimes and we’d book it out of there. We usually got through without him noticing, it was pretty rare to get yelled at. Except one time he decided to wait for us to come back through. And held us up at gun point to question us. He felt we were “wrecking his barn”, that we should “go to juvie for vandalism”. We never been to his barn. He was full of crap, but obviously we didn’t argue while he had a rifle pointed at us. My friend told his parents, the cops got involved. He denied everything. Because we’re kids we got a lecture of making up lies and trespassing from the officer.
I think this kind of stuff happens once in a while to white people. Especially if you don’t have much social status (a kid, for example) where you can be easily dismissed by the authorities. This happens MUCH more frequently to black people. And probably goes unreported because instead of getting a lecture, the cops might arrest some 11-12 year old black kids for some made-up crime.
Systematic racism is bad, really bad. But the freaks that we let run around armed makes it worse.
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How does this even happen? How does two people bumping into each other even escalate to this point? I just can’t imagine ever giving enough of a shit to ever be in this situation.
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