It’s not.
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I stand corrected and thank you.
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Just a reminder to all the men reading and taking notes:
Back in the 1980s, I went on a date with a nice guy. No, really, a nice guy. He was from a different country/culture, where acting like this was considered normal and gentlemanly, and he truly did not mean anything by it. It was not incel behavior. He was genuine, and truly hoping we’d hit it off enough for a second date.
But I was a full-grown adult, and being told I should be careful drinking ONE glass of wine with a multi-course dinner to protect my appearance as a lady (as one example out of several) was enough to make me realize that we were never going to be compatible.
So, even if you are an actual nice guy acting appropriately within your culture, it’s still not going to be the right dating behavior to expect a woman you’re just getting to know to want to fall in line with your idea of what a date should be. Be able to pivot: oh, she doesn’t seem to like this, maybe I should ask what she prefers instead of assuming.
Because honestly, if he had been able to do that, well, he was a nice guy, and interesting, and who knows how it could have turned out? But don’t tell a woman you know better than she does, especially when you literally don’t even know her yet.
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Read something about the statistical aspect to guys who date like this. They say even if they get rejected by 99% of women who say no to sex, there will be one who says yes…
And forget the opportunities of conversation and general interaction with all those people … the ONE he bangs is all that matters… that is the brass ring on an otherwise unproductive carousal ride for them.
LUCKILY, this dude oozes douchebag early on and doesn’t leave a lady guessing about his intentions.
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Hooooolllllllly fuuuuuuck. Wow, he even has “the voice,” with this creepy, condescending tone to it. I don’t know how she managed to stay so polite and not just run screaming from that restaurant in the first couple of minutes, much less sit through a whole date. I’m guessing it’s from a lot of practice being a heterosexual woman. Jesus. (I am now reminded of the “joke” - How do we know that sexuality isn’t a choice? Because heterosexual women exist.) Heterosexual women, you (yet again) have my condolences. I’m so, so sorry for the dating scene you have to endure. Women and non-binary people, I apologize for… /gestures at everything.
Fuuuuck.
Yeah, and ohmygod, she is so fucking polite, even if a definite note of irony started creeping in. Though I do wonder how much is patience/politeness and how much is just straight-up fear. I’m guessing that’s the kind of guy who, based on her past experience, she knew she needed to extricate herself from with the least amount of drama possible just for her own personal safety. (Like interacting with certain predators - no sudden moves, just inch back slowly…) She wanted him to think it was a “good date” before she vanished entirely.
My skin crawled there. Right off my flesh. Arrrgh, it still is.
His voice adds a whole new layer, though.
Fuck, really. I often don’t know what I want - I usually have a hell of time figuring out what my friends might want and won’t even pretend to know what a stranger wants. Even if we (charitably) interpret this guy’s claim that he “knows what women want” to mean he can figure out what any particular woman wants (and he definitely didn’t mean that), it’s still completely fucking insane.
Yeah exactly, just different names for aspects of the same thing, even if the “incel” label is relatively new.
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Especially when the actual, real “nice guy” alternative is to keep your damn mouth shut, get to the end of the date, and very fucking politely say “Hey, I had a great time. You’re super nice, but I don’t think we’re compatible. I wish you luck in everything.”
Why is anyone’s voiced opinion on ordering a glass of wine (or choice of meal, or whatever externally harmless behavior) relevant. Say “thanks and goodnight” and move the fuck along.
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I don’t get the “nice” part, even in it’s place within quotation marks. Creepy, yes. Asshole, yes. I wasn’t getting any “nice” vibes, from this guy.
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He thinks he’s being nice. He believes himself to be a “nice guy”… That’s where the “nice” part is coming from - his own understanding of himself.
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Waiting for the Muppets version of that…
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Why did someone CG George Clooney into the Muppet Movie?
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To add to what @anon61221983 wrote, guys like this think they’re being nice because they pay for dinner and open doors.
They don’t realize that it’s not nice to negate what someone actually wants for dinner, get all creepy when someone tries to pay for their own meal (srsly, that “you will not embarrass me,” when she tried to pick up her own check was chilling), or insist that someone wait for you to open a door instead of letting them proceed at their own pace.
It’s nice to open the door for me if you see me coming and pace it so it’s seamless. That’s really nice. It’s not nice if you expect me to wait while you do something I could do myself, but slower.
It’s nice to offer pay for dinner, but not to insist if I want to cover my own tab.
It’s nicest to listen.
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This phrase is used ironically. IIRC it began because these types of guys would whinge in online forums about how they couldn’t understand why they couldn’t get dates, or second dates, writing “I don’t get it, I’m a nice guy.” Then they’d go on to describe behavior that ran the gamut from cringey to horrific, all the while pleading “and I’m a nice guy.”
So the term stuck, but not in the way they intended.
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Not by him, no. He (and other guys who crow about being “nice guys”) believe that shit.
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Y’know, I don’t even think a lot of them actually do believe that they are nice; it’s just that sounds way better than actually coming out and saying that they think romance and sex are completely transactional:
“Well, I paid for everything and treated you like an invalid, therefore you now ‘owe me’ access to your orifices.”
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Good point. And it’s not just access to orifices, they want real human affection. Otherwise, as discussed elsewhere, they could get real relief from sex workers. But that’s not enough.
It’s so gross that they think they deserve human warmth and affection while not being willing to put any out there from their end.
And sad. 
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Excellent point as well; these are people who want to be on the receiving end of all the positives that inherently come with a healthy sexual relationship, without having to actually do any of the hard work it takes from both participants to get to that point.
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Oh, yes. Sorry! I should have been clear. The rest of us use this phrase ironically to categorize a particular kind of guy, much like this one.
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That tracks with something I read long ago, something about “advice for nice guys” (quoting from memory): “Guys: if you are actually nice, you need to know: ‘nice’ is both necessary and insufficient. ‘Nice’ isn’t award-winning stuff; it’s the minimum bar you have to clear to begin dating. Once you’ve got ‘nice’ sorted out, you can work on things like ‘receptive’ and ‘engaging’ and ‘respectful’ and ‘supportive’ and ‘interesting’ and ‘useful’ and a lot of other things besides.”
Point is, anyone who thinks “nice” is reason enough to be considered attractive is confused. Could be they’re new at this. Could be they’re like this guy; the kind who use the word “nice”, even though it doesn’t mean what they thinks it means. It is not a magic word that lets one sit on their arse, emotionally speaking, and reap the rewards of an actual relationship.
Rant over.
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