Oh, no argument.
It’s just taken a long, long time to come to the realisation that the reason I don’t know what “men”, or “women”, or “Neurotypicals”, or “insert clade here” want is because there is no such singular thing. You might as well ask what height “men” are, or how fast “people” can run.
Yeah… my point.
I know. I was trying to agree with you. (While emphasising how long it took me to get the point.)
Clearly I am expressing myself badly, and will withdraw.
While we’re on the topic, these were both very bad movies. They are bad, and they should feel bad.
Okay. I got ya.
I just want to reiterate since this is a point that is often lost on so many people, that men and women are individuals, and there is not “women want X” or “men want X”… Given how much of this thread went, I think it’s pretty important to stress that as much as possible.
Can’t speak for anyone except myself; I happen to know what I want*.
To be genuinely cared for, respected, appreciated, and understood.
And that’s what I offer in return.
Positive human connection takes actual, consistent effort made in good faith, from everyone involved.
*When it comes to personal relationships, obvi.
Hell I don’t think any two people in a relationship for many years want the same things as their former selves or future selves typically over the whole course of their lives.
Maybe on the huge ticket items like “secure housing” and “not being murdered” sure those don’t change much… but specific things that makes a relationship feel worth it probably will change with time some since the interpersonal stuff changes a lot between things like raising children, grandchildren, health changes, moves, job changes, grief from losing one’s own parents, and all the things that happen within a given period of a human life that can make us re-think priorities or just change how we feel fundamentally. Some one who often likes a lot of feedback may want space, some one who was always a caretaker may need to be cared for… and so on…
People have to keep working to understand each other after all. It’s so hard sometimes it just… fails.
Of course everyone knows this and has for all of human history.
And yet we get statements like the one in the video “I know what women want” and in the thread “I don’t know what women want.”
The first guy is on a first date where some one should be getting to know another person but he can’t get to know the other person because he’s not treating her like a person since she’s a woman. Dunno about the latter example… a punchline maybe, meta or otherwise? Wimmin, amirite? People… women are people.
Of course everyone knows this and has for all of human history.
Oh I get that just fine. Crazy thing, I have the ability to empathize. Maybe I should’ve been more specific. Secretly recording your creepy date and then publishing it isn’t not creepy.
Secretly recording your date before they start acting creepy is not cool, secretly recording your date after it becomes obvious they are some kind of misogynist sociopath is another thing entirely.
I don’t get the problem here. She didn’t identify him, and it appears even took efforts to disguise his voice (hence all the claims of it being fake).
The reason more people, especially men, are now aware that women deal with this stuff is because people have recorded and shared it. When we just talked about it happening, no one believed us. Even now when we record it happening, we’re either accused of faking it or criticized for being creepy. If only someone could come tell us the “correct” way to deal with this creepiness we encounter every day in the world. 
Reminds me of this:
In a world where Women have to worry that first date with a stranger may lead to assault or much worse, I think men can give them this one. Hell we allow virtually every company we talk to record our conversations “for training purposes and our mutual security” without a second thought.
As for sharing the creepiness, the lack of support from others when this sort of thing happens, as I understand it, has led to all sorts of underground ways Women are forced to share with each other that someone is dangerous and should be avoided. Again, I think we can give the recorder some leniency here.
While mutual security is the primary goal, there is also great value in these videos in training men (especially young men) what not to do on a date. There needs to be some counterbalance to the flood of ridiculous advice being handed out to men elsewhere on the Internet and to the toxic norms of patriarchal society in general.
A lot of the dismissal of these events is because of how uncomfortable it makes men to be forced to see just how harmful behavior that they may have done, or watched, or approved of really is. That it really is most men (or at least a very high percentage) doing this. When society is ready to back you up and tell you it’s the woman who is the problem, acknowledging otherwise requires a kind of honesty most people fail at.
The person in question still seems to relate more to the man in this story, creepy behavior or not.
*shrugs
Too damn bad. Women live practically our whole existence being ‘uncomfortable’ for the sake of others’ comfort, and that’s some bullshit.
Like Julius Goat said, it doesn’t matter why.
Have you seen all these creeps who secretly record and then publish police during their workday? Are you fine with that? If so, why do you think this is different?
How are people who aren’t subject to this kind of creepy date going to understand that it happens unless someone records and publishes it? Even in this thread, we’ve seen denials that it happened; that it happens often.
Recording and publishing this date wasn’t creepy; it was a pubic service.
If we are going to try to do anything to change this situation men need to acknowledge that it’s their behavior that’s the problem. Understanding why they don’t see this as bad behavior is useful. When kids are very young a simple “No! Stop that!” will work to get them to behave, for a while. Once they are older it works better to explain why they have to stop. The stove is hot, the cat will bite, no one likes being pushed, and so on.
We discuss the complexity of social issues all time here. Trying to understand a behavior isn’t condoning it. It isn’t brushing it aside, or ignoring it.
Getting people to allow themselves to be uncomfortable with social issues is a big part of being able to solve them.
Exactly. The fact that this thread has gone on as long as it has just highlights how deeply entrenched the problem is.
