A Question for the Male Regulars

This is going to seem trite or sarcastic, but it isn’t.

Date different men.

I had decades of terrible relationships, and a failed marriage, because I kept dating “my type” of guys. So I had to face the prospect that it wasn’t them, it was me. I’m the only common denominator. And I was picking bad mates. So I went out of my way to find and date men that I wouldn’t normally meet. (as a former goth this was kind of easy) I met MrPants 13 years ago, and so far its pretty good. He’s not goth or a nerd or a geek, has never read a comic and I so do not get his sadwhiteboy music tastes but we laugh a lot and have fun most all of the time.

Also he’s from Newfoundland, so maybe try to find one of those. :wink:

22 Likes

True, a lot of times.

Yep, I agree. Not easy to step out of that, but it’s not sarcastic btw.
But sorry, I’m not the male regular.

9 Likes

I think I’m probably gonna keep to myself for a while; work on me.

14 Likes

The better you treat you, the more obvious it is when you are with people who treat you good too.

12 Likes

I don’t have any advice or explanations to offer. Just came here to say I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with this bullshit.

16 Likes

We all go through some bullshit, sometimes.

Thanks.

8 Likes

Me too. Not-ghosting has been the exception, not the rule. I just assumed it was in vogue for both sexes.

8 Likes

it’s in Vague, that’s for sure

10 Likes

Edit: Created a new discussion.

5 Likes

Can you do me a solid and make a new post?

It really is a different topic; falling for the wrong person and getting in too far over your head.

(I feel for you, I have had a few friends in that situation.)

9 Likes

Will do.

7 Likes

I’ve never done it, but I understand the psychology intimately, being an introvert, procrastinator, and someone who is uncomfortable with emotional displays.

Silence Day 1: "I should let her know that it’s over, but I’m not up to having that conversation right now. The last time I tried to talk to her about the future of the relationship, she broke down crying, and I just can’t deal with that. I’m mourning the end of this relationship myself, and neither of us can turn to the other for comfort. I’ll let her be happy for just one more day. I’ll tell her tomorrow. One day won’t make that much of a difference. I’ve been out of touch for a day before.

Silence Day 2: “Damn, I’m busy today. Oh right, I’ve got to tell her. I’ll do it at lunch.” “Oh, lunch is over, it’s time to go back to work. I’ll call her before I leave work.” “Oh, I’m on the bus now, and I should wait until I get home.” “Well, that was a long day. Oh, I was supposed to call her. Right. Well, it’s too late now; she’ll be in bed. I’ll do it tomorrow.”

Silence Day 3: “I’ve been out of touch for two days now, and now she’s texting me in a panic. What should I do? I really should call and apologize about being out of touch, but would that set the wrong tone for a break-up. How do I do this? Do I break up, and then apologize, or apologize and then break up? I know, I’ll spend today sorting out how to say what I need to say, and call her tomorrow.”

[…]

Silence Day 7: “Oh, she’s stopped texting me. I guess she figured out it was over on her own. I really should call and apologize, but I’m feeling good now that the relationship is over, and that would make me feel bad again. I think I’ll just leave it. Maybe call and apologize later.”

[Etc.]

Again, that’s not based on the actual end of one of my relationships, but I do have a bad habit of not replying to emails, of having friendships online disappear because I no longer contact the people (and feel bad about how long it’s been since I last talked to them), and of putting things — like thank you cards — off until the point where I feel that sending them would be more awkward than not sending them.

Of the two relationships I’ve been in, the other person ended one, and I ended the other. I did so in person, because it has been made clear to me that the option I describe above is extraordinarily painful for the person being ghosted. But if that hadn’t been made clear to me, I can see it going the way above; that kind of procrastination and avoidance is how my mind works.

Yeah, that.

14 Likes

Um, wow.

I had pretty much sorted through my frustration and acceptance phases by the time this conversation started to taper off, but you posted a couple things here that I feel compelled to address.

I understand what you’re saying about the psychological pressure that some men can place upon themselves, when they know they should make that call and can’t bring themselves to do it, for whatever reason, and then the following procrastination.

That and many other previously mentioned factors make sense to me.

However:

Never happened in this particular relationship. I haven’t cried in front of a guy in a very long time. (It’s kind of a point of silly pride with me.)

Also not my style.

One of my biggest pet peeves is being treated like a pest by anyone, ever.

Two messages are the max that I will send in an effort to communicate, once it seems like a person’s interest is starting to ‘drift.’

The exact circumstances in this case are that the last time we saw each other, we had a really great date, and then he expected to be busy for the next several days, studying and writing papers.
(I respected that and gave him his space to work.)

He was supposed to call after his exams were over and he didn’t. I texted him once and got a vague phone call in return, during which he was half asleep.

I have not heard from him since, and consider that my ‘cue’ to move on.

See, I believe in straight forward, low-maintenance relationships; with as little drama as possible.

I’m not the one to cry, or cause a scene needlessly. I just wanted to understand why it’s so hard for some people to just be honest, and I got the answer I already knew:

Because it’s hard enough for some people to be honest with themselves about what they actually want, let alone anyone else.

Thanks for your input @nimelennar

26 Likes

I know it doesn’t solve the problem, but sorry guys have been treating you with so little respect and decency.

From your comments above, it sounds like you’re a pretty level-headed non-clingy non-avoidy emotionally mature person to date. As others said, if there’s a pattern, it must be in the men you’re dating, whether it’s hidden self-loathing, lack of self-esteem or some other neurotic flaw. To paraphrase Sherlock and Spock, once you’ve eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the explanation. So while I totally understand wanting to work on yourself in singledom, going by what you’ve said, the problem isn’t with you. If you do date again, would you consider doing emotional reconnaissance becoming good friends with the person before dating, even if dating is what the guy is asking for?

Apologies if my late comments are out-of-line.

5 Likes

I’m a little late to the party myself, I guess - having problems keeping up these days (sometimes as in “staying awake”).

Melz, I concur: three times is a pattern. My question would be, what were the… power dynamics (right term?)… of the relationships? The reason I ask is that I know damned well that you’ve very, very bright (that’s a salient characteristic that hasn’t really been touched on), and I can see really only two possible reasons for what has been happening:

  • “Wham-bam-thankee-Ma’am-and-I’m-outta-here…”
  • You intimidated these chaps, and they lacked the 'nads to say so. Procrastinating on the phone call would also make sense in this case.

Number 1 might be a factor for one, maybe (stretching here) two cases, but it doesn’t feel right as an explanation for your problem - I suspect you’d catch on very quickly.

Number 2 doesn’t imply that you weren’t dealing with these guys as equals or playing nicely. It does imply that you may have been very hard for these guys to read, and, for many, maybe most, people, that makes them insecure.

I’m speaking from a certain amount of experience here - I’m not precisely dumb myself. I’ve had people with a certain amount of backbone tell me that they didn’t understand where I was coming from, why I reacted to certain things they couldn’t see a problem with, why I didn’t react to other problems that would drive them into a frenzy. I deliberately adopted a policy of becoming quite predictable: people still didn’t necessarily understand why I did what I did, but they could count on it happening. (The bonus is that people react predictably to predictability, especially those who think they are dealing with a mark.)

I can very easily see you having a similar problem. The question then is, has similar happened with people in your life other than lovers?

7 Likes

No worries.

It doesn’t matter at this point; I did eventually hear from the guy over the holiday, so my ‘ghosting count’ is back down to two. (Nothing else has changed; he’s still history.)

Intimidation combined with insecurity is a real possibility, but all I can really do now is make better choices going forward.

Thanks.

:slight_smile:

13 Likes

Thanks. I’m sorry I didn’t see this reply til just now; something is hinky with my notifications, and has been for some time now.

Sure.

I can’t say for certain that I’m ‘done for good,’ but right now I know I’m just too tired to deal with anyone else’s bullshit but my own.

12 Likes

Agreed (and you’re welcome). This might be something to take into account for all your personal relations, not just your love life. It took me into my 40s before I realised that it frequently wasn’t just the people I disliked whom I made uneasy. Now, I’m normally pretty easygoing, normally pretty polite, and I generally read people well, but not always when they’re hidden behind my biggest blind spot - myself. I suspect you’ll figure out your own ways of dealing with this faster than I did. :wink:

10 Likes

I’m another Regular Guy who’s late to the party, and you probably don’t need any more input on this, Melz, but I’m gonna write anyway since this is precisely the kind of thing about which I have a strong opinion, and you haven’t quite told us all to shaddap about it yet. :wink:

I agree with everyone in this thread who, like you, believe that this is NOT COOL BEHAVIOR. And unlike @nungesser, I have known women to do this. Doesn’t surprise me at all that men do it; pretty much anyone who is afraid of conflict or even a slightly uncomfortable conversation will at least be tempted to ghost. But you know what I know and what most mature, empathetic grownups know: leaving such a situation completely unresolved is a certain degree of psychological torture to the other party, especially if they have no idea that anything went wrong.

Now, like many otherwise respectable people, I have to admit to a certain degree of hypocrisy about this. I have, on more than one occasion, been known to procrastinate and postpone an uncomfortable conversation long after its proper due date. Just last weekend I finally called my uncle regarding my late father. He was married to my dad’s sister for over 40 years until she died about a decade ago. He has since remarried and has a pretty good life going in his sunset years, but somehow I couldn’t quite bring myself to call this sweet, generous, soft-spoken gentleman and tell him his former brother-in-law had passed away once I realized my dad had been dead a week and nobody had called Uncle Howard yet. I apologized profusely and he was predictably quite gracious about it, but still: that was not cool at all, and I’ll feel terrible about it for the rest of my days. I know better than that. Even when the delay had gotten embarrassingly long, I should have just called and gotten it over with six months ago. He wasn’t mean or outwardly hurt or rude about it, I knew he wouldn’t be, and even if he was he still deserved to know about it and it was my job to call him and I failed in that responsibility.

Okay, sorry, long digression, entirely too characteristic of me, I hope you’ll forgive me. You already knew this ignoring-a-problem-and-hoping-it’ll-go-away thing was a bad practice, and now you know that it’s sadly pretty common. I actually had one woman do it to me twice. It was a long-distance relationship, she lived in Salt Lake, I lived in Burbank, I drove out to see her one time, she ghosted me there, wouldn’t talk to me, so I drove home. I called a day or two later, she wouldn’t answer, I figured that was that and went on with my life. A month or two later, she called, we had a long conversation, she said she wanted me back as a boyfriend, that sounded pretty okay to me, we hung up on what sounded like excellent terms… and I never heard from her again. I called and wrote a couple of times, to no avail. As far as any official notification goes, I guess I’m still her boyfriend. (Not really, of course; a few months later I met my next girlfriend and after that relationship had run its course I met my wife. This Utah girl was back in 2001 or so.)

I have read enough and learned enough over the years to avoid trying to contact someone who obviously doesn’t want to be contacted. I used to torture myself by thinking “maybe the last message didn’t get through” and the like, and I used to continue to pursue people who, in retrospect, weren’t interested, even though they never could just come out and say so. And eventually I learned to not do that. At the same time, I think ghosting is both cowardly and irresponsible, and for the last couple decades I’ve just said exactly what I feel, and asked others directly how they felt, and made it surpassingly clear that I wasn’t going to necessarily be reliably good at interpreting subtext or body language or any other hidden message. So if someone drops their end of the conversation, I won’t try more than a couple times to restart it. Everyone that has ever known me knows how to find me. I leave it at that. But I will make every effort to prevent someone from believing I feel something differently from how I actually feel. Nothing drives me nuts faster than being misunderstood. Rarely have I ever regretted telling someone exactly how I feel, and never have I regretted someone else telling me exactly what she felt either.

Communication, as the cliche goes, is key in any relationship. My prescription for everyone would be to say up front what your hopes and expectations are (if any), and that this particular behavior of ghosting is not acceptable, and that if ever things are looking less than wonderful for the prospective SO in question, they had better spit it out and they can expect a civil conversation about it. But ghosting will make them forever a chickenshit in your eyes.

13 Likes