A Sanders candidacy would make 2020 a referendum on the future, not a referendum on Trump

Originally published at: https://boingboing.net/2019/04/23/the-vision-thing.html


It goes without saying that we as the other than TGOP’ers need to narrow the field of POTUS candidates, but until then let’s keep an open mind as the process plays out.

reposted by popular demand:


Defintely not looking forward to watching the Dems snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in 2020, but I’m already resigned to it.


So satisfying to see this pullquote as the antithesis of this blog post. When I read that Guardian article on the train, I just stood there fuming, and didn’t quite know what to say. Centrist Democrats would be just the types to be so proud of themselves for climbing up on that oh-so-polite scorpion’s back and taking a ride.

Just gonna keep this one in my back pocket to pull out when the “Bernie Bro” talk gets out of hand.


I love the implication (it’s always an implication, because nobody wants to come out and say it ) that supporting disastrous wars of aggression like Iraq and Libya, that cause untold human death and suffering, is a minor peccadillo that can be reasonably described as “Isn’t 100% ideologically pure.”

For me, and a lot of other people, supporting a war like that is as bad as putting kids in cages, even if the victims are further away. Someone who supports those wars is as far from me politically as Republicans are from Democrats. I think the Dems would do better to stop nominating warmongers than to trivialize this difference by insinuating that it’s nothing but an issue of ideological purity that sensible people would be willing to overlook.


“Never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty and the pig likes it.” is another way to say don’t make it a referendum on Mango Mussolini.


Agreed. I was called a “single issue voter” because I can’t let Hilary’s Iraq war vote go. I voted for her after the nomination for the good of all, but it was a bitter fucking pill.


You know why the USA has a crumbling infrastructure, shit transit systems, toxic drinking water, no universal health care, a living wage, etc. etc. ???

The USA has been at War for a 100 years, trillions upon trillions of dollars have been wasted on these Wars.

That’s why we can’t have nice things.

That’s why we need a change.


That was exactly my point. We won’t get that change by voting for more warmongers, no matter what letter they have after their names.


That would require Trump to not make something about himself. Good luck to any opponent on that.

“The empire never ended.”
-PK Dick


I’d say that’s true, but it covers up an important change that happened after WW2. Before that, the peacetime standing army was always kept at 2-5% of its wartime manpower; a small cadre of professionals who could train up a wartime army when the time came. This also gave the House, in addition to the Senate, a veto over war, since they had to appropriate funds to expand the army. Also, in peacetime, the combined state national guards, commanded by state governors, was a larger force than the national army.

Since WW2, we have been constantly on a wartime footing, with the military constantly staffed at a wartime level.


This creates a situation where lawmakers look at the gigantic army and how much they spend on it every year and think that they need to use them for something or people will clamor to stop wasting money. These defense contracts represent an enormous amount of political capital in Washington.



The Dem Primary race still more than 8 months away.


Agreed. The rapid buildup of manufacturing infrastructure and the global footholds we “gained” in WWII completely changed the balance of how we engage in war and lowered the bar for commiting to war. I’m not just being contrarian, but it’s hard to find many years before 1941 where we weren’t engaged in military conflict. Either against foreign elements abroad or on our own soil or with our very own people. I’m referring here mainly to the genocide of the first Americans, not trying to paint the Civil War as some sort of “good people on both sides” conflict.

ETA: The shift you’re referring to was that we became a global warmonger and not just a regional one. We had been inexcusable aggressors many, many times before the 20th century.


We had the referendum on Tump last November. I hope that’s clear.

In 2016 he beat Hillary by making it all about him, with all his outrageous claims and promises, his taxes, and grabbing pussies, and tax cuts, and the Brown Peril and Wall, and killing Obamacare. She had a good platform and he made sure no one had time to look to it – everyone had to respond to his antics.

And he has done the same ever since. No one can be a narcissist without knowing how to grab all of the limelight. It’s his one skill, and it’s his power. He steals all the attention. He provides cover for his minions while they do all the dirty work that conservatives have always wanted to do. He ensures that no one else can get the camera long enough to get a competing message out.

To the extent that he sucks the House and the Dem candidates into that trap, he wins. This election has to be about a better future, not about Tump.


I agree, but candidates do need to call out the corruption and devaluation of constitutional and institutional norms. Just say it with a little “t” and move on.

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Ehh, probably gonna focus on supporting Warren, who is further to the left than Bernie, who isn’t a gun-rights supporter, who didn’t get support from Russian trolls in 2016, who isn’t already older than Trump, and who isn’t getting her loudest support from professional assholes like Sirota or barely-covert Trumpers like Greenwald and Tracey has the strongest policies and most positive outlook, and is a fantastic campaigner.


I was a Bernie guy last time and still am. BUT, there is an amazing field of Dems running and Bernie, bless him, is old. This could be a factor. Will be looking hard at Warren, whom I like in general. Mayor Pete sounds very articulate and smart, but I don’t really know enough about him. But at this point, I will vote for nearly anyone who will get the Republicans out. I still have no idea why party hack Biden seems so damned popular (other than riding coattails). I’ll probably vote for him if he comes out on top, but I’ll have to hold my nose while doing it.


“Democrats have two choices: make this a referendum on Donald Drumpf or lose. That’s it. There are no other options.”

Well this certainly does not sound like a false choice at all. TrueFacts-approved!