Definitely seems possible. I totally see these points, and at the same time am reminded of the logic that Vonnegut develops in Mother Night, along the lines of Life’s outcomes being what they are and they don’t necessarily care a whit about our intentions. "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
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I don’t want people to die. Is that so wrong to maybe not think of how assholes can be a strategic advantage in an election for like… 5 seconds? This might be an intellectual exercise for you, but it’s probalby not YOUR state that is about to open up for business with out the necessary testing materials. I’m at risk, my family is at risk…
But sure… let’s figure out how such deaths can be weaponized against the orange turd, cause what’s a few deaths caused by an unnecessary protest, anyways… those are “red states” anyway, so who cares if a bunch of red necks die, AMIRITE! /s
And did she also help spread the virus? Do you think the hardcore of his backers (including the moneyed elite) CARE?
[ETA] Here are actual human beings who actually died from this disease:
A 5 year old whose parents were first responders:
Here are many more:
So, no, going out to mock protesters who are doing and saying monstrous things, contributing to this ongoing human tragedy is not particularly helpful. At all. Which was my whole point. The woman, whatever her intent, was highly irresponsible in her actions. We have to stop living like what we do and say in this world has no impact on others, when we can see clearly right now, our actions most certainly do have consequences for others.
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Yes. The same people who assume that also likely assume that Trump wasn’t serious about building the wall or putting kids in cages, or that he wouldn’t get past the primaries anyhow because nobody’s seriously going to vote for him, etc, etc…
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Certainly not. I think we’re in agreement that strategically compartmentalizing messaging without considering the basic actions involved is absurdly dangerous to everyone including (probably especially) people who aren’t even involved in the protest shenanigans.
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Some people here aren’t, they are brushing aside the fact that she was out during a pandemic, because they think she makes the “opposition” look bad. They just see it as another day to pwn the opposition. I don’t care what “side” she’s on, I care that she’s an irresponsible dipshit whose actions could have consequences for others.
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Yeah, “the power” of willful stupidity. Regardless whether that woman actually believes what’s written on the sign she carried or not, the fact is that she willfully endangered her own safety by simply being there.
Ah you mean all the fine folks like this;
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Your post should probably be on the Ongoing Coronavirus thread (link below). However, w/r to the curfews, I don’t know about Germany but I think the curfew in my home state in the US is really a labor-saving device, so that they can cut the number of police on duty during the day. That said, we really do need to watch out for governments using the virus as an excuse to roll back civil rights. (However, the subjects of this thread are people whose notion of “civil rights” includes the right to spread the virus.)
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On the plus side, when we finally do get universal health care, we can also cite these guys when they set up the death panels.
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Stupid and backward is the opposite of shrewd and politically calculating, which is what the political class is, and the opposite of the political class is the working class, or “real America”.
Which is all well and good as long as the political class doesn’t astroturf movements in its own interests, or hollowly imitate the working class, or play the unwashed masses against each other, or do any number of things the political class is absolutely known to do.
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quoth the wikipedia:
In commonly used infection models, when R 0 > 1 the infection will be able to start spreading in a population, but not if R 0 < 1. Generally, the larger the value of R 0, the harder it is to control the epidemic. For simple models, the proportion of the population that needs to be effectively immunized (meaning not susceptible to infection) to prevent sustained spread of the infection has to be larger than 1 − 1/ R 0.[23] Conversely, the proportion of the population that remains susceptible to infection in the endemic equilibrium is 1/ R 0.
Basic reproduction number - Wikipedia
R_0 below one is a good thing. R_0 above one is a bad thing.
I’m kind of confused by the subscript. It sort of implies initial conditions-- or perhaps a population where all are susceptible. In lat er stages of an epidemic, it’s better to talk about “R”. Maybe people just like saying “naught”.
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I DON’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE GODDAMN ELECTION RIGHT NOW.
Know what I do care about? In a few days, governors loyal to Trump are going to use these fucking boot licking collaborators as an excuse to order their states economies opened, and kick people off unemployment and give them the option of going back to work or starving to death.
And tens of thousands of people are going to die because of it. (Of the virus)
I don’t know if anything can stop this. But I do know that thanks either to this woman’s sacrifice or her stupidity more people see what is going on.
One of those boot licking toadies is Gov Kemp of Georgia, where I happen to have a lot of friends. I don’t want my friends to die.
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Upon further reflection…
You know what? If she is a counter protester, perhaps she is an “essential” employee who is exposed every day; perhaps she is a nurse or a doctor, perhaps she is a delivery driver for grub hub, perhaps she works at a grocery store.
Perhaps she has to deal with these people while they are drinking at the “19th hole” on the golf course because somehow golf courses are essential.
There is a certain amount of if you are going to let people sell pickles during the pandemic I can overlook someone slipping into the protest to do this on her way home, if you aren’t going to arrest the rest of the protesters like they should have done.
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Then, you know… stop promoting the idea that “maybe her being out there maybe getting others sick with a clever sign will save us.” It won’t. She is part of the problem, whatever her intent, because she and others like her are going to get people killed. Her being out there is the entire PROBLEM!
Yeah, so do I, cause I fucking live here, as do many of my family and friends. I don’t wnat them to die, so please, stop promoting the idea that bieng in the midst of a fucking protest is great because it sticks it to those assholes. It does not. It sticks it to my family members who are either older and sick, or out working because they have no choice. And same with your friends, too.
And btw, given how this is a global pandemic, and we are all being impacted by this one way or another, how about we not assume that someone else here is not impacted by this, because we all are impacted by this, whether or not we live in GA, NYC, the middle of nowhere Idaho. We’re all fucked up in this together and part of the problem is that we’re still playing these childish games… like protesting about not getting a hair cut, or counter protesting with an “oh so clever and ironic sign.” People are dying, our governments are utterly failing us, and all that is doing is letting them win.
Really? If she does any of that, do you think she has the actual TIME to make a funny sign and protest? Plus, if she is essential, I’m quite certain she is well aware of the risk of doing something so fucking boneheaded as protesting or counter protesting like that. She is right up there, up against the other protesters. The protests we have seen from essential workers have been responsible, spread out, etc.
So, again, since people seem to keep wanting to make this woman a hero of some kind. Her intent is irrelevant. Her manner of actions are much like those of the nimrods around here - not socially distant, not spread out, likely to be close enough to get sick.
Also, I don’t want to get sick. I don’t want to die. I don’t want anyone in my family to die, and our governor seems hellbent on pushing up our numbers to make some stupid point. So if I’m a little angry and testy, that is why.
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“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Mother Night
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Other than making Covid go away, if I could magically do one thing, I’d spray these idiots with a giant tank of ink to mark them and then have them refused medical care when needed.
The south has fallen and won’t get up.
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Again, you can pretend “the south” is the problem, but this is not confined to the south or red states, we’re just going to get fucked the hardest, because the GOP death cult is in charge. And the people who are going to die will be the people who don’t vote for the GOP.
We really, REALLY, need to get over this regionalism, especially now.
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Oh sweetie…
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