I mean, it’s basically what they are…I just figure it’s time to create some context.
These should have you set:
These are just basic tools that let you define a set of standard substitutions. Like this xkcd, with s/keyboard/leopard
I don’t like to speak for every other Jew out there but in this case I can pretty confidently say “Please don’t do that”.
We have enough people accusing us of blood libel as is, I don’t y’all to feed the trolls.
The way I interpreted it, @William_Holz would only be substituting the text in his own browser, and the reason for using Jews as a stand-in for Muslims would be to constantly remind himself that our current crop of GOP presidential hopefuls are nazis, since if you replace “Muslim” with “Jew” in their speeches and tweets they sound just like hitler.
Although I’d guess you probably understand that just fine, and don’t like it anyway. I can sympathize, but I’d at least say that it’s coming from a good place. Not trying to make Jews look bad, but rather leaning on the Jews as a mnemonic for when people start talking all genocide-y.
Yup, that’s precisely it…and I was looking for a good example or two that didn’t require a ton of search and replace in my head…some swaps are definitely more elegant than others.
In this case let’s just say that you most definitely don’t, given the local crowd that was wanting said examples. Did you assume ‘looking like Nazis’ added some credibility or something? It’s kind of the opposite.
Whatever, just the idea that you would use us like that creeps me the F out.
So you disagree with other Jewish people then? Do they also ‘creep you the F out’? You’re currently outnumbered on this subject (in the real world, not this forum…with three real-world people encouraging and zero dissetning). Are their opinions so unimportant to you?
Were you lying when you said you ‘didn’t like to speak for every other Jew out there’?
I mean seriously…are you TRYING to deliberately misinterpret things in the most personally offensive way or something?
I get it. I probably wouldn’t like it if I, personally were used as a stand in for Autism, because more people are familiar with ADHD, and as a guy with pretty sever ADHD, I have a few features in common with Autism.
The way I see it, in the US the Jews being persecuted and the targets of genocide during WWII is a massively emphasized point in American civics and history classes. We have an extensive narrative down pat. Nazis are completely bad guys, and Jews are always innocent. That’s the narrative they grind into our heads as children and even the word nazi or Jew brings up that level of association to the narrative. We’re supposed to defend Jews. Hell, just look at US foreign policy with Israel.
So it may be useful to use the Jews as a stand-in when politicians start talking about groups in certain ways in order to remind ourselves that hitler used to talk that way.
Useful, but perhaps an oversimplification, but I for one don’t want my country to genocide anyone, and if it takes saying “hold on, if they were talking about Jews, would this ever be acceptable discourse?” it might be worth it. Sorry if it seems callous, but please, I hope you might recognize that it can serve the purposes of humanity and can help re-frame discussion?
Come on, we (gentiles?) don’t need to take offense here. Remember, Jews are people too, and just being used as a mnemonic can be grating. It’s important that we exercise empathy as best we are able in these kinds of discussions.
Well, I’m not so much taking offense as annoyed at somebody else making this into something offensive when it was instigated by three Jewish people!
I mean, I haven’t talked to them today or anything, they haven’t filtered into work just yet… but I’m going to go out on a limb and say that @Israel_B is not only completely failing to speak for them but is embarrassing them. They were pretty keen on the idea of using a couple of good examples to defend some people who are being treated horribly.
The thing is, despite whatever narrative about WWII, in the US, Jews are still the overwhelming top target of hate crimes. 59% of recorded bias attacks in the US are against us. Fortunately in the US we rarely get outright murdered just for being us (unlike in say, France for example). I’m lucky in that in the last few times I’ve been in the US I’ve only gotten some nasty comments, and here in Japan only one problem where some young Arab men sat down behind me and started speaking English talking about the “joy” of shooting Jews in the head. Pretty mild stuff compared to how this lady rabbi is being treated (can’t vouch for that source at all).
As you pointed out in the comment below, we are people too and we still have reason to be concerned about being a symbolic stand in for someone else’s LOLs.
Bring them over here to join the discussion. Better that than you trying to speak for another group of people.
I don’t think it’s about the lols at all here. I think it’s a sincere attempt to try and keep in mind that genocide talk is universal and that even Muslims have a right to life and security and to not be genocided. It’s not really all that much about the Jews in the first place, they simply are within the national narrative to the extent that they are recognizable iconography.
I can see how dealing with antisemitic sentiment is really fucking awful, and how people are fucking dumbasses, but I honestly don’t think this idea of the text replacement is meant to denigrate the Jews insomuch as it’s using the Jewish case of genocide as a template for thinking about genocide in more general terms. Surely that isn’t so objectionable?
Also, I’m really astounded at the numbers from your forward.com article. I had no idea. While I am not surprised that in the south (Louisiana) Jews would be targeted proportionally greater than other white-looking people, since… The KKK is still a thing down there.
Why the hell would I do that? I mean, I’m cool if they want to join and I’ll be mentioning this little convo, but I’m sure not going to pressure anybody to join a forum just to ‘defend my honor’ or something like that. This isn’t grade school.
I get that you’re doubling down here on being offended rather than saying 'oh, maybe replacing one of Trump’s speeches with references that make it obvious how Nazi-like he is might do some good’ (I won’t even get into the ‘I apparently shouldn’t be allowed to do such a thing as a Gentile’ bit rolls eyes…sheesh).
That’s fine, you can double-down all you like. That doesn’t mean I have to act like you creating problems where none existed is a valuable stance.
Sigh. It looks like I’ve taken a stance. But all I’ve done is try to keep the peace and explain the side of the story I actually identify with.
And now I realize that I’m sort of “mansplaining” even though, I have at least Acknowledged @Israel_B.
I’m just interested in furthering the discussion, but I fear I’m tainting it by saying anything. Damn. Adding “power” or “energy” to a conversation affects it. Stupid quantum mechanics.
Have the replacer cycle through a list instead of singling out one group. That way it insults all, one and alike.
Good idea. But that would end up with “mini golf course city halls”. I’d rather strive for secularity, which strives to believe verifiably and universally true things. But I suppose strictly speaking even that is a bias because there is no “null direction.”
I’m offended by that. Hahah. Well I don’t understand it, tbh.
Serious question. Did Hitler start off calm and rather benign and then ramp it up and get worse and worse, or was he just as harsh as ever from the get-go? Is trump following the same trajectory? Or are they different?