Can’t wait to see the document dump of your browser history, all your emails, and the contents of any cloud storage you have.
1 Like
But they didn’t. Not only is that a far cry from reality based, it’s a step away from democracy.
4 Likes
cc @Medievalist It is not uncommon for a POTUS to replace any top level leader - regardless of the reasoning. The secondary point is of course that only one other time was the FBI director replaced while simultaneously investigated the POTUS.
So any calls to 45 being somewhat Nixonian…yeah, its a fair comparison.
My clarification to others who responded to my post is that while there are other things that can be done…I do not think those who need to initiate and push those actions/measures will do so. WHATSOEVER. The GOP has been complacent or complicit to date on some very questionable items. I doubt the day is coming that they collectively remove their heads from the dark cavernous place they are lodged currently, come to their senses, and do something to stop this.
I agree with @hecep that simply put. 45 is going to get what he wants in the next 3 years and then won’t care if we vote him out.
5 Likes
Of course… true.
I believe the references to Nixon/Cox is plausibly comparable to Trump/Comey to the extent that a legal threat (whether real or perceived) results in an abrupt – and surprising – firing. I see nothing wrong with that comparison.
[quote=“Medievalist, post:22, topic:100743”]
Breaking into foreign computer systems and using the information gained there to advance the interests of their nation is a fundamental part of the job of national intelligence agency. In what fantasy world is that not true? You can’t do anything that will prevent this, it is a feature of base reality, it’s not negotiable.[/quote]
So, traditionally, would be repercussions for any members of that nation caught working for you. You don’t get to wave off the one as “business as usual” to excuse the lack of the other. And if you are genuinely for conducting business openly and honestly – which is fair! – it makes no sense to then be so blasé about a fairly transparent attempt to interfere with an investigation into the party that won.
Personally I’d been expecting the interaction between the Trump campaign and Russia might prove relatively minor, something like the sort of implicit collusion you see between oil companies. But the way it’s been handled makes it hard to imagine staying a small scandal. And then this, a president abruptly firing someone in the middle of investigating him – someone he had praised for the ostensible cause, from most other accounts done because of frustration over how the Russia narrative was being handled, and to the surprise of most of his other staff – is genuinely no more of a normal event than when Nixon fired Cox. Which I suppose you’d argue was a normal event, too?
Well, maybe it will prove so in the long run. If it does, though, it’ll be because of people working hard to normalize it and downplaying just how shady it is. Kudos for this spin on that. Hackers gonna hack, investigators get fired all the time. And hey, presidents are above the law. That’s just the reality we ended up in, who knows how, but we definitely should just accept it and move on.
8 Likes
It doesn’t mean that POTUS is not Nixonian, but Nixon did not replace an FBI Director… he fired a special prosecutor which immediately lead to his AG and DAG resigning. Wikipedia on the Saturday Night Massacre.
Well, I can’t stop you from hacking away at it, that’s objective reality again.
Don’t get surprised if there are consequences, such as being arrested, or being bored to death.
I didn’t say any of that last sentence… just because I find people’s sudden support of Comey hypocritical and counterproductive, doesn’t mean I don’t know how we got where we are, nor does it mean anyone should give up. In fact, I’d say we got where we are because people aren’t prioritizing making meaningful changes above making ineffectual protests.
Where I am, there was a local school board election last night. In one race, it was a right-wing, white male authoritarian who supports zero-tolerance, choice, magnet & charter schools .vs. a foster parent and mother of a disabled child who has been an active, outspoken supporter of inclusivity and comprehensive public education. You want to know what voter turnout was like?
2 Likes
Well, for one i think they assumed the grift would be on other countries not our own country. Weak Assumptions Folks. Sad.
But you did bring up living in the reality-based community. And as far as I could tell that somehow means both that hackers taking actions to prevent secrecy for one party is no concern, and that Trump taking actions to preserve secrecy for another is nothing to be upset about. If that’s not telling us objective reality means just accepting the imbalance, what exactly was it?
And now you’re adding to this that we’re being hypocrites? Why? All I can think of is that people somehow object to Comey disclosing an investigation into only one party just before the election, and to him now being sacked to prevent investigating the other. If you think that’s the hypocrisy here, I don’t think we have a similar understanding of what’s been happening.
8 Likes
Can you cite any examples from BB of support for Comey? From what I’m reading it seems like most people who are angry at his firing still think he’s an asshole.
19 Likes
I think he is an asshole that I don’t fully support but the timing of this firing is kinda scary. So yeah, it’s possible to not like him AND not like this firing and not be hypocritical.
This firing stinks on ice.
14 Likes
I think we are being misdirected again. The problem isn’t ONE thing. The problem is multiple things. As we focus on the replacement of the FBI director, we lose focus on other, more important things like the destruction of the EPA and the gutting of Net Neutrality.
In this aspect, Trump implements very effective strategy. He leaves behind so much devastation, that we focus on the devastation, instead of the cause.
If we wish to survive, then Trump has to be restrained. Either we must gut the effectiveness of the POTUS, or we have to remove him from the position.
2 Likes
A non-event firing the director investigating you? What does it take to be an event, nuclear war?
7 Likes
I’ll clarify.
Hackers taking actions to prevent secrecy for any national political party is laudable; a sitting President taking action to fire someone who offends him is business as usual.
When Comey literally told senators the idea he’d help elect Donald Trump made him sick, my spouse said “well, he’s fired, now.” And lo and behold, a week later that has come to pass.
Because before the election, when Comey’s actions were harmful to Hillary Clinton, everyone was screaming for his firing; now suddenly he’s the best man for the job. Hypocrisy - either he is suited to run the FBI or he isn’t. That doesn’t change just because one’s enemy’s ox is being gored this time. I think Comey’s proven incompetent for the job, and therefore shouldn’t be in it.
That’s not hypocrisy, hypocrisy requires a feigned act or belief while harboring the opposite intent. Comey’s firing is a very good example of hypocrisy. Sessions recused himself for overseeing the case against Trump’s campaign and foreign influence, but around the same time he made this announcement worked directly overseeing the case to fire the man overseeing the case he recused himself from - and then fired him for the very reasons he praised him a few months prior.
No part of pointing to that hypocrisy and saying that while the justification is accurate the methods and timing are despicable is in itself hypocritical.
11 Likes
Again, can you cite anyone who has said anything close to this? It’s like you and I are reading two different websites or something.
10 Likes
Lots of things look hypocritical if you ignore all the context. But you can believe someone isn’t qualified for a job, and that he was fired for unfair reasons in a concerning abuse of power, without being a hypocrite. Don’t tell me the first means I’m not allowed to care about the second.
That doesn’t clarify, it repeats and again ignores the context. Transparency is laudable; working to ensure only one party can be secretive is not. Yes, presidents fire people as a matter of course, and no, a president trying to stall an investigation like this is not business as usual. And in any case it is plainly serious corruption, and deriding people as out of touch with reality is you telling us not to care about that. Why?
I am so sick of people saying they support change, but then being told what injustices I’m not allowed to care about. After the election there was a wave of not just saying the Democratic party needed to care more about economic conditions – which I agree with – but smug gloating that that’s what they get for worrying about minorities. It seems every time Trump injures something, someone says to forget it, it’s a distraction from what they care about him doing. And here we are, a ham-handed attempt to push presidential conduct beyond investigation following the precedent of Nixon, and you’re telling me that if I care about reality I don’t even get to consider it a problem.
If you had actually wanted to talk about prioritizing meaningful change, that would be one thing, but people don’t get to piss in my mouth and tell me I’m tasting ordinary rain. To hell with that kerosene illumination.
12 Likes
When the Nixon Library is subtweeting you, you’ve done fucked up.
5 Likes
You can care about whatever you want, call whatever you want a significant event. I’m not stopping you, I’m just telling you what I think. If you get to do it, I think I should get to do it, too.
I think there are more important events happening at every level.
In our solar system, Juno still has engine problems.. On our planet, we still don’t fully understand Zika virus. Nationally, Betsy deVos still exists. In my state, we still have zero tolerance. In my county, armed home invasion continues to be a problem, and we have tuberculosis in our penitentiaries. In my own upper-middle-class neighborhood, police are basically just a uniformed street gang that preys on the citizenry, and they still haven’t managed to catch the local serial kidnapper and rapist despite having multiple eyewitness descriptions of his car and person.
@doop has the best counter-criticism of my criticism. S/he specifically called out my hyperbole.
I believe that if I vocally protest someone being fired, I am supporting that person.
People who were claiming that Comey was a tool of Trump because of his actions against Clinton are now saying he was an enemy of Trump; this about-face seems to any outside observer to prove that they are just taking whatever tack allows them to demonstrate their anti-Trumpiness.
I will now do an experiment: I have not looked at any right-wing websites in several weeks, I have not talked to anyone about this other than on this site and to my spouse, but I predict that the usual crew of vermin are using this behavior to solidify the existing right-wing perception that all liberals are untrustworthy, lying hypocrites. Here’s my search terms:
liberals suddenly love Comey – whoa, 180,000 results in .09 seconds!
I am not going to waste any more time on Comey, personally, so y’all can continue without me. He’s really not worth any of our time; it would be far more meaningful to demand action from the incoming director. Personally I’d like to see that person investigate the President’s ties to organized crime.
Comey’s still a dick, and I don’t see anyone here lining up to join his fan club, but this still reeks to high hell, nevertheless; and I hope it all blows back in 45’s face.
15 Likes
