🔫 Firearms: Why own them? Why ban them?

A place to discuss the philosophical underpinnings for the ownership and use of firearms, or restrictions from such.



No offense but … How can I hide a topic? Want to get ahead of the shitstorm.


Set the Notification button to “Muted”.

ETA: I got nothing to say about this topic, but this is a great idea for a thread. It’s a good place to dicusss gun control without annoying either hobbyists who want to talk about all the fun little details of their sport or non-hobbyists who have no interest.

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Is it finally not “too soon to talk about gun control”? Did America finally go three whole days without a mass shooting? :smiling_imp:


Days not over and the drive home is long.


Sweet - thanks - I didn’t know that did that. Seriously - no offense intended - talking about such things is a good thing, but for me personally discussing and even reading about this topic is too much for me at times. I opt out of this one.


Here’s some ketchup on a hotdog:


Possibly, but several kids probably got shot today, and (based on averages) 2 likely died this week…
Isn’t it time for responsible gun owners to back laws requiring liability insurance and jail time for irresponsible storage and handling?


This time of year, I only use hotdogs as a chapped lip treatment… Adding ketchup would probably make me look a bit too sexy.


I’d like that post, but it was just too depressing…:unamused:

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Agree - the intent of this thread is to help corral the subject so it doesn’t pop up and derail other threads. Not sure if that is actually possible, but hey, why not give it a spin.


Well, I’d want a little more detail before getting behind that.

For one thing, mandating private insurance is the worst way to tax people ever invented. It’s a horrible moral hazard and a big driver for government corruption, one of the biggest. Any insurance required by law should be collected and disbursed by the government on a purely non-profit basis, otherwise it’s just tax farming.

And for another, some people’s idea of responsible storage and handling is identical to not having a weapon at all.

But with that caveat, sure! Don’t laws requiring safe storage and handling already exist, though?

But our analysis of publicly reported gun deaths in the twelve months after the mass shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, shows that the federal data substantially undercount these deaths:
  • From December 2012 to December 2013, at least 100 children were killed in unintentional shootings — almost two each week, 61 percent higher than federal data reflect. And even this larger number reflects just a fraction of the total number of children injured or killed with guns in the U.S. each year, regardless of the intent.
  • About two-thirds of these unintended deaths — 65 percent — took place in a home or vehicle that belonged to the victim’s family, most often with guns that were legally owned but not secured. Another 19 percent took place in the home of a relative or friend of the victim.
  • More than two-thirds of these tragedies could be avoided if gun owners stored their guns responsibly and prevented children from accessing them. Of the child shooting deaths in which there was sufficient information available to make the determination, 70 percent (62 of 89 cases) could have been prevented if the firearm had been stored locked and unloaded. By contrast, incidents in which an authorized user mishandled a gun — such as target practice or hunting accidents — constituted less than thirty percent of the incidents.

While our analysis finds these tragedies to be far more common than previously reported, it also gives reason for optimism. First and foremost, it shows that unintentional child gun deaths can be prevented: if fewer gun owners left their guns loaded and unlocked, fewer children would lose their lives.

Pool owners have all sorts of laws and regulations that govern accessibility to pools and homeowner’s insurance gets adjusted for the additional risk. Drowning is shill the #1 killer of kids, but people are willing to make sensible changes to make those numbers go down e.g. Arizona’s pool code credited with reducing drownings

I find that nearly all discussions of this nature fail from a leftist perspective to address two fundamental presuppositions:

  1. Private property is “a thing” - Most municipalities and states already have arsenals of weapons. Since they are not often needed, it is easier and more efficient to simply treat those firearms as “public” rather than governmentally-owned. Why buy a personal one when there are already more than enough for how often they are actually needed?

  2. You trust your government enough for them to have autonomous agenda - Most nation states are deliberately secretive about their weapons, as well as the “interests” which they hide their weapons and purportedly protect their citizens from. It’s contrary to the entire concept of representative democracy when the common person cannot be expected to make informed decisions about state secrets. The state strives to control weapons as both a means to control access to information, as well as to consolidate its coercive ability over its populace - if you let it.

Nobody “owns” anything!

The nice man with the blue uniform and the gun may disagree with you.


That sounds like UK car insurance. Most of the corruption from that has been fraudulent claims from private companies rather than the government.

I’m not saying it’s suitable for guns, but if you were to mandate insurance, looking in depth at how the UK has done it for the last 85 years would not be a bad move

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They may, but some people are picky about what they are willing to pay a government to do - or tolerate them doing. Property is barbaric, and defending it is not going to be good for their reputation.

So stealing that for future use.

Also, don’t we already have an active Firearms thread?

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Again, I need to say there is a recognised need for personal property from the vast majority of the left, where something needs to be made to fit an individual or where there may be a risk of infection because you can’t know the health of every person around.

It might be considered a joke, but I don’t think communal sex toys are something I want in a society.

(I’ll leave how this relates to guns up to the reader)