How would you describe some of the things the IDF has done and continues to do?
Iraq invaded Iran.
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OopsâI found it. Sorry!
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@elizk, you had me thinking weâd been hoodwinked, so I went looking, too!
For those interested, itâs here.
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I disagree with all of that. Iran is hardly a 3rd world Nation. While the sanctions might hurt their economy, they are still able to funnel money to terrorists and clandestine operators now. This isnât that expensive.
However, if you did plunge Iran in to deeper and deeper poverty, you are just asking for fundamentalism and people willing to do terror to only increase.
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Yes, itâs definitely realâI COULD NOT believe it. WHAT were they thinking???
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More Log Cabiners than Iâd imagined, I guess!
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Iran is blamed for terrorism targeting Isareli/Jewish institutions (e.g. Buenos Aires in 1994), I never heard similar accusations against Saudi Arabia (could be my or media bias - I simply donât know).
Really? Okay, letâs look at this double standard.
Obama was born to a Kenyan dad and an American mom in America. However, some people who now identify as Tea Party, claimed Obama was born in Kenya and therefore ineligible for the presidency.
Cruz was born to a Cuban dad and an American mom in Canada, but barely a peep from these same folks. In fact, one die-hard birther appears on stage with him at political rallies.
So in one case, a made up reality is concocted to that they can claim Obamaâs illegitimate claim to the presidency, but in the other case, itâs okay, even if itâs not fictional.
My point is that the Tea Party holds its own to a completely different standard than to those they oppose. What may be lighthearted humor for their candidate would only be proof that an opposing candidate is a thug. There is no grey, there is no overlap. There is only us vs. them.
And before I am accused of the same, Iâll point out I actually share a position or two with the Tea Party and would be delighted if they managed to push those issues forward. I just donât understand why they respond so well to fear mongering and emotional flag waving instead of rational thought processes.
Ah, your framing was a little nebulous so it was hard to figure out whose double-standard you were targeting.
Sorry. I was probably uncaffeinated when I wrote the original post if it seems a little vague.
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This describes the entire political climate now.
This sort of thing makes me suspect youâre one of them. And so youâre not with us. Get him!
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You do know the date right? The key planners were Saudis. Iâm having a hard time believing that the aggressive export of their ideology wasnât partially responsible for this.
Look, I donât want to say we canât call out Iran as a bad actor at times, but you have to look at the factors driving their activities⌠Itâs not just anti-semitism.
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Did you ever see Adam Curtisâs Bitter Lake film?
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Letâs also not forget that the US funded and armed BOTH sides of that war.
@renke: Are you blissfully unaware of what country Osama Bin Laden was from?
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No⌠is that his newer one?
Yeah, from earlier this year.
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Even with out that, just look at how theyâre attempting to standardize Islam and eradicate the culturally specific forms around the world. They endlessly fund the building of grand, opulent mosques around the world, and do outreach, which often turns into ideological training. This specific thing happened in the Kosovar hinterlands, where the EU/NATO just turned over rebuilding those communities to them⌠ignoring that the Islam practiced there is not that of the Saudis. Theyâve offered to build mosques for the refugees in Germany:
These are likely a psychically vulnerable population, who have just been through hell, who are looking for some assurances and support that the Saudis will be happy to give. Theyâll also radicalize some of them, who went through hell in Syria and Afghanistan, as well as trying to get to safety in Europe.
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But one of Bin Ladenâs targets was to overthrow the Saud government since the aftermath of the Iraq war and US troops in Saudi Arabia - is this really a good example for Saudi-sponsored terrorism?
I donât disagree with your assessment that Iran is less radical/dangerous/, but both regimes are not exactly political role models.
Iran will develop nuclear weapons, for the simple reason that the Iranian body politic wants Iran to be a nuclear power.
Even during the âgreen revolutionâ, building nuclear weapons had an over 90% approval rate in Iran. Going nuclear is one of the few points of broad agreement in Iranian politics.
Looking at a map from the Iranian perspective explains this. To the north is nuclear superpower Russia, to the east is âIslamic Bombâ Pakistan, to the west is full nuclear triad Israel , and to the south is the US Fifth Fleet. Also, many people think regional rival Saudi Arabia can âborrowâ nuclear weapons from their fellow Sunnis in Pakistan.
Iranians live in a nuclear neighborhood. Of the typical Iranian wants the bomb.
The relevant question is when and how Iran goes nuclear, not if
So the question becomes: Can the US, acting alone, keep a modern, well-financed country with itâs own research infrastructure from reaching the same level of technical sophistication that the US achieved seventy years ago?
Posed that way, it does seem rather obvious, doesnât i?
The point of the deal is to try to get Iran re-engaged in the international system so that a Nuclear Iran is no more destabilizing than a Nuclear Pakistan or a Nuclear Israel.
Put a different way: who do you want getting domestic credit for Iran going Nucelar: the technocratic âmoderatesâ, or the Revolutionary Guards?
Suddenly, this deal that substantially delays rather than stifles Iranâs nuclear project starts looking pretty good.
@Melted_Crayons: care to elucidate? Because I read the deal as definitely having enough wiggle room for Iran to cheat if they are intent on cheating.
@Mister44 As much as I want to agree with you, Iranian opinion polls suggest a thriving economy would have little effect on the desire of the average Iranian citizen to have his/her own ânuclear umbrella.â
@awjt Itâs not that the inspection themselves are weak, itâs that the regime for enforcing penalties requires cooperation of five different entities with disparate interests. Enforcing the sanctions requires Russian and Chinese cooperation. Both have good reasons to cooperate, but that is far from assured.
