Well, there is that. Anyone remember Obama promising to close Guantanamo?
Of course things get said on the trail. There’s still a whole legislature to get through first though, so a lot of policy-talk is simply bluster. I have no doubt that if Trump did get in, he’d have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting a fraction of the things he’s said passed.
But they’re still voting for a bigot. Maybe they don’t think racism is important enough to care about, but that is what they are doing. The problem isn’t just his policies, it’s the racism he has already unleashed and the people he’s empowered along the way. David Duke and his ilk should be in the dust bin of history, yet he keeps popping up. Again, I think that’s a big problem.
As for the Golden Girls… well of course I do!
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He certainly tried, over and over again, sending legislation to Congress, and issuing executive orders to do so. But the power to close it is in Congress’ hands, not his.
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Yep.
Look at these two video clips. Knowing nothing else, which one would you say is the “crazy person”?
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Maybe true, but equally, they could accuse Clinton voters of voting for a Liar.
Now which is worse? I’m honestly not sure.
As for the Golden Girls, nice one.
Exactly like the power to carry out Trump’s policies. In congresses hands.
And in the UK, they voted for Farage (or at least, his side of the referendum).
I think @pixleshifter’s point is that telling people that they are awful racists doesn’t actually achieve much, beyond being cathartic. And there might be a point to that. Not that I want to start talking about Brexit again…
Which I think is why Sanders resonated - he was taking (some of) the same things that Trump supporters are also angry about, and focussing on them in a positive way.
It’s easier said than done, I think. But if you really feel like the current system is failing you (true or not), I can see why you’d vote for anyone other than the continuity candidate.
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By any reasonable measure, Donald Trump has lied far more frequently and far more brazenly than Hillary Clinton. He isn’t just a liar, he is a pathological liar.
If you honestly are not sure that a bigot who is also a pathological liar is worse than a run-of-the-mill liar then I don’t know what else to say.
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Well that’s the problem, isn’t it? More of the same indefinitely, continuing the ever-rightward, ever-more-disparate trend of the last 30 years that’ve fucked over the prospects for so many of my generation with nods towards progress when we need to be reminded that they’re definitely the lesser of two evils, or a single, disgusting piece of shock therapy that’ll either end up shattering the country or make it realize that the current path is fucked. 4 years of fuckery might be worth it if the country can turn around, especially if the more heinous portions end up mitigated (the Wall’s not getting built in 4 years, let’s designate it as a memorial of when things went so wrong, whatever’s even there.)
That assumes that it will be a wakeup call, of course, but this is a big factor in my voting 3rd party (still democrat on other lines), I imagine in those others voting 3rd party, and to a certain extent those voting Trump themselves: it’s fucked, but at least it’s not the current trend, and maybe either through his policies or people realizing how fucked the policies of the right actually are, good might come of it.
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Hillary’s lied while in a position of great power. Therein lies the difference.
@daneel and @tekk have summarized it pretty well.
If the people who will vote for Clinton are those who feel the current system is working out well for them, then it will be absolutely no surprise to me if Trump wins.
And it will be the Democratic leadership’s fault in every way for putting that ham-sized thumb on the scales in Clinton’s favor.
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Do you have any reason to believe that Trump will suddenly become more honest than Hillary once he’s in elected?
I just don’t follow the logic. “I don’t like how this politician has occasionally stretched the truth, therefore I would rather vote for this pathological liar because he has never been entrusted to public office.”
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All politicians are liars, though. I think voting for someone who wants to round up 11 million human beings and deport them, and refuse to allow in people who are suffering for a war we helped set off in the first place is indeed worse. voting for someone who regularly gets the white supremacist backing is worse.
Quite honestly, at what point is it okay to call out racism? While people might not see themselves as racists, or want to support racist policies, by voting for Trump, they are doing that. I don’t think that’s okay. [quote=“daneel, post:269, topic:85956”]
Which I think is why Sanders resonated - he was taking (some of) the same things that Trump supporters are also angry about, and focussing on them in a positive way.
[/quote]
Sure. I get the sense that the people who aren’t turned on by the racism of his platform are doing it just to “watch the world burn.” I kind of feel like they are being part of the problem and honestly don’t care about the rest of us at all.
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Late Stage Capitalism?
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Trump may not have been in a government position but his name recognition and money give him power that he’s exploited for his own benefit. There’s only a difference if you don’t consider fraud to be a lie.
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Stretched the truth? Let’s call them what they are. Brazen lies.
And as @daneel says
OK, let’s lay it out. You pick the most bald-faced, objectively false lie Hillary Clinton has ever told the public and I bet I can find something Trump has said IN THE LAST WEEK that is more brazen.
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What makes you think Trump will all of a sudden stop lying if he gets into office. He’s lied his way through this campaign and I don’t see him stopping if he wins. And it’s not like Clinton is some outlier as a politician regarding lying.
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Let’s be clear, as I’ve stated earlier upthread, I’m no Trump supporter. I’m no Republican either. I’m just trying to offer reasons why people might vote trump. You’d be better off asking an actual Trump supporter for all the nuance of their reasons.
My main gist of the thread is, stop dissing half the population. It doesn’t help, it only hinders.
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I believe those things exist, whereas conservatives believe global warming does not exist, same for evolution.
There is a difference between opinion and fact. Reasonable men can disagree about policy, but if one disagrees with scientifically provable facts then he is not very intelligent. I don’t assume all conservatives agree with the ideas I mentioned, but the GOP as a party has allowed those ideas to become part of their platform.
[quote=“muddi900, post:198, topic:85956”]
Again, though, that is not my point. Just knowing these things about the Federal Administration, and my disapproval of them on these, does not make me a better person. The writer of the article seems to believe otherwise.[/quote]
The writer of the article is saying if you vote for Trump you are stupid. And I would say that if you support Trump because you think he will address those issues better than Clinton, then yes, you are being stupid.
In other words, if I disagree with Obama’s drone warfare policy should I then vote for Trump, whose policy seems to be “nuke them”?
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