Yeah, that’s what I’m trying to do. I’m not going to improve our situation by screaming at him or calling him an idiot. (That’s why I’m doing it here, where it’s safe, and I know he’ll never read it, right?) While I do think most Trump supporters are about the level of … well, let’s not Godwin the thread just yet, but I know he’s not in that camp, at least. That and the fact that I do like the guy, even though I’ll note that I do not categorize him as a friend. (At a minimum, we both volunteer in the center, and spend a lot of time hanging out there.) I don’t think he’s a lost cause, but I also wonder how many of my limited spoons I should use trying to convert one guy.
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I sincerely think you’re doing the right thing, are one of the good ones for taking the approach you are, and I thank you.
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Bingo! This is the very essence of what should be happening, extended even to people online. Instead we get titles like “If you vote for Trump, then screw you”, which isn’t helpful in the slightest.
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Awww, I’m blushing over here!
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Yeah. Venting feels good and it’s easy, but it’s toxic.
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That’s a good way to put it, certainly more nuanced than the Turtle and Hare analogy.
I would also agree that there is a very large group of people who are either not served, or outright screwed over by the powers-that-be. Maybe my optimism is showing, but while the suffering is there, it is visible and the bulk of the 40% CARE about changing it. That’s how we get the Affordable Care Act, calls for better corporate governance and regulation, backlash against systemic racism, etc. And when I really let loose, I think to myself that this election cycle may be the near-final death-burp of mainstream racism, sexism, homophobia, class-ism, and all the other bad -isms. After all, you’ve got to see the problem clearly to fix it. Bring it to the surface, shine a light on it and deal with it straight-on.
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“Charisma”? or “belligerence”?
The guy is a con man, he’s basically really good at selling, so he can convince people that he has just what they’re looking for, trust him, etc.
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It runs both ways. Both Conservatives and Democrats vilify eachother, and all that’s left is division.
I’m not American, so thankfully I don’t have to vote for either of them. If I did, I’d probably not vote at all.
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Nobody’s above being a human being, and it’s not hard to understand where the anger comes from in politics - both parties exploit fear, anger, and resentment in their propaganda to try to gain support. While Clinton’s message has a lot of “Trump’s dangerous, horrible, and a crook, so vote Not Trump,” the GOP under Trump has taken fear, anger, and resentment to levels I’ve never seen in the US before to the point of literally promising to persecute and harm many segments of the population. So it is toxic no matter who engages that way, but we should be careful about moral equivocation.
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I see these sentiments and the “Giant Meteor” bumper stickers in unexpected places. Essentially, they are anti-Clinton ads. When I’ve pushed people about it, it comes down to a basic distrust of politicians. Which puts HRC in an impossible position. She’s a highly qualified person for a difficult job, but she is in fact, a career politician. Which makes her qualified and yet reviled. Versus her competitor, who is neither qualified or trustworthy, on a completely different level.
So, again, how is this a difficult choice for some people?
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I found what you were asking for after a bit.
Where? So you vomit out a generic google link that wastes my time, and when I call you on it you say the proof is out there but I just didn’t see it and it’s not worth your time to show me? Bad faith discussion, man.
“What I Learned Driving Through the Heartland” - pro-heartland op-ed
“They Get It” - pro-heartland op-ed
Isn’t it possible that this “NYT assholery” is largely imagined on your part?
Sadly, to many people it seems, they are equivalent.
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Exactly, call it what you will – charisma, bluster, presence. The guy can make a room listen to him in the right circumstances. Millions of people tuned in every week to hear him yell at his latest Apprentice, so for a certain kind of person, he’s weirdly magnetic.
Not sure why you care about that particular aside, but again I have no investment in the topic, and I’m certainly not going to encourage you to keep wasting your time on this tangential pedantry that’s unrelated to my greater point. I’ll be glad to argue about something substantive, but this isn’t that. If you like, feel free to waste a few more minutes of your life reading through them for a few pages (the second link has more) and you’ll find things that justify the obvious, though there’s truly no point in it. At this point I’m not going to slog through Maureen Dowd, Thomas Friedman, David Brooks, and friends anymore unless I’m paid.
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Electra Townie, 21-speed. Looks just like this. Cost something like $549.
For what it’s worth. But it’s not like you’ll win it.
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Oh, I agree. But I was referring to Con’ and Dem’ voters vilifying eachother, not equating policies of the candidates. As to whose supporters are the worst for bad-mouthing the other side, I’d say they’re pretty evenly matched, perhaps Dems even taking a bit of a lead.
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A friend of mine works at a theater-related organization in NYC, and he’s told me that despite his workplace being overwhelmingly gay, a ton of his co-workers are big Trump fans for likely exactly the same reasons as yours.
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I’m obviously biased, but given the fact that my brother in law uses the word “libtard” and “liberal” as a generic pejorative when speaking at family gatherings, and given my experiences on FB and Twitter when politics comes up, it really feels to me like the seething, vitriolic rage coming from the right’s stronger. Still, I’m so biased I’m in no position to judge, and there certainly are a lot of assholes screaming at each other on both sides.
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I kinda hear where you’re coming from.
Our culture (U.S.) worships celebrity and individualism to the point that we project all our hopes for ‘change’ and lay all responsibilities at the foot of a single person who, by systemic design, has fairly restrained power. Every election cycle—every damn one—we overlook the power of the legislature whose primary function is change.
But the U.S. presidency? Yeah, I’m OK with that person being a career politician. That person needs to know how The System works because they’re in the position of administering and delegating a lot of its top-level functions. Hillary Clinton is such a person, whereas Trump cannot be trusted to run a lemonade stand.
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