In private text, Tucker Carlson complains about a "demonic" Donald Trump

Whether they had objective credibility or not, it’s clear that when they felt it was at risk, they chose to double/triple/infinity-down on pushing lies rather than expose reality to their audience. That audience would have revolted, and that’s a rational fear. They’re stuck and they did it to themselves. They paved the way to hell, trying to avoid consequences at every step.


We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful of what we pretend to be.
— Kurt Vonnegut


His affection for, and agreement with, the worst clowns in the clown car might be an act, but his support for them is his public performance

There is no difference between the act of support and the fact of support

Whatever he believes secretly inside his own head, he’s still sitting in the same clown car with the rest of them and wearing the same clown suit :clown_face:


Lots of predictions here that these private messages going public means Fox is fucked, but no explanations of how or why.

I mean, I may be missing something and I’d dearly love that outcome, but didn’t the network wriggle out of some other lawsuit by claiming it’s not a real news network, but rather an outlet for satire?

And it doesn’t seem like much of a threat to ratings either. It’s not like many of those who watch and swear by Fox News will even hear about these private messages, let alone be fazed by them.


I hear ya. I do think that this case is different. With previous cases, they were defending Tucker for stupid shit he said on his show, since it is an opinion show for entertainment. The election denialism, and the specific attack on Dominion, was a full-court press from top to bottom and side to side at Fox. I don’t think they can wriggle out of that no matter how much slime they excrete.


Praying I Hope GIF by The Paley Center for Media

Thanks, that is hope inspiring.


It’s at least tangentially related to the “Boris” Johnson approach: pretending to be (i.e. being) a buffoon to distract from the fact that you are actually an idiot. (And unrelated to the “George W Bush phenomenon” where everyone is so distracted by one’s malapropisms and general word salad that they fail to notice just how fundamentally stupid the ideas trying to be conveyed also are.)

In this case they were admitting, internally, that the stories they were telling about Dominion voting machines were false and the people telling them were not remotely credible, but still presented the lies (and allowed those others to present them) as true. Which seems like the heart of the whole lawsuit…


I’m often too optimistic about these things. But not always wrong. :slight_smile:

Also, I forgot to post a hagfish slime gif to go with the metaphor!

Water Ocean GIF by PBS Digital Studios


See, that’s the bit that worries me a bit. That’s how satire generally works-- you present something outlandish as true, while those in the know know you’re joking. (Not that pretty much any Fox fan does think they’re joking.)

The disingenuous “I was just JOKING!” defense has become too common from the far-right to allow me to feel certain it won’t work again in this case.


Some of the details from the Tucker/Fox “no one believes Tucker is telling the truth” successful defense.

And unfortunately it didn’t lose them a single viewer.


Can I just say that the picture for this article is [chef’s kiss] magnifique!


That works in online debates and many forums, but it doesn’t tend to work when dealing with acts of malice perpetrated by a company in a defamation suit in a court of law. The fact that this hasn’t been quietly settled out of court with a large transfer of cash despite Fox I imagine trying to do just that means we’re going to likely get to see it all. Dominion’s out for blood, and if this very early set of releases from discovery are anything like the rest of it, they’re going to get their blood.


Well See Mtv GIF by Teen Mom


Fox’s filing for summary dismissal probably boils down to that and other stuff.

Fox’s counterclaim is based on New York’s “anti-SLAAP” law.

Well, good luck with that.


Actually, it was Dominion that moved for summary judgment using all the nuggets they developed in discovery. Very surprising considering Dominion has the burden of proving actual malice by clear and convincing evidence. I understand Fox also filed their own motion, but I haven’t seen that yet. Their defense so far has concentrated on the neutral reporting standard rather than the “mere opinion” (aka “I was joking”) defense. Either way I don’t see the judge granting either side’s motions because these issues are so fact-intensive. Trial should be fun. Hope CNN carries it.


The article above doesn’t link to a copy of Fox’s motion for summary judgement, but:

Attorneys for Fox News argue in their summary judgment brief that the network’s coverage and commentary are not defamatory.

“Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that Dominion could point to any statement that could be actionable defamation, this court should grant Fox News’ summary judgment motion for the independent reason that Dominion lacks clear and convincing evidence that the relevant individuals at Fox News made or published any statement with actual malice,” the attorneys wrote.

Davis ruled last month that, for the purposes of the defamation claims, he will consider Dominion to be a public figure. That means Dominion must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the Fox defendants acted with actual malice or reckless disregard for the truth.

That sounds like a bit of a forlorn hope. :man_shrugging:


I have no confidence that the Dominion lawsuit is going anywhere. Alex Jones has laughed at the judgment against him while bringing in enormous sums of money and spending enormous money on himself. The upper tier of the justice system for the politically connected and wealthy is alive and well.

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Hey, we were just joking, surely viewers could see that! Nothing reckless about that, your honor.

I’ve long wondered how the claim that it’s a journalism outlet that’s in its name squares with the just joking/satire defense.



And this time, it’s not just Tucker doing his white supremacist opinion ramblefap, it’s the whole network claiming to be only doing Fox storytelling.