You don’t have to be sorry for disagreeing with me.
This is going to sound harsh, and I’m not trying to be truculent. But guilt is sentimental nonsense that people get caught up in when they should be focused on being better people. Feelings don’t heal wounds or feed hungry mouths. If people can use their guilt as a motivation to do real good, then I’m happy for them to do so. But I really don’t care if they feel bad because they did bad things. Also, I have forgiven people who apologized to me without asking me to forgive them. Their asking or begging would not have changed whether I chose to forgive them. Actions, not the power dynamics of dominance and submission, prostration and contrition, are a healthier way to change the world.
There are degrees of assault. That doesn’t mean an assailant is entitled to forgiveness, or even acceptance of a finely-crafted apology.
So he apologized. So what? What matters now is what he’s doing after that. He doesn’t say. That’s an important detail.
He’s, what, 50? He’s an example—a cautionary tale, but only if he chooses to actually act like he’s sorry and do something about a larger problem. It’d be great to see him stand up and learn and do better, to grow as a human person, but the time for that really was 15 years or whenever ago, not now. Maybe @anon61833566’s right and he can do some good.
But so far:
Stupid?
How about “asshole”?
How about “sexual assault”?
Mmm not sure that is the case. I’ve done things I regret in the past and I am not one to confront or bring up said things unless I had to. While I won’t pretend to know whats in his heart, I’d say avoiding confronting something bad one has done, even if they feel bad about it, is pretty typical human nature.
I think comparing Louis’ letter to Weinstein and Spacey (Spacey at least having done one of the worst ‘apologies’ of all time) is basically just clickbait at this point.
The thing that twists my guts about this, and the other sad, sordid tales that are coming out about famous people is that sexual abuse is in no way confined to famous people. It almost leads me to believe I am just lucky to never have been sexually assaulted. If these are the stories we get to hear about, by what factor are they multiplied when we add in the rest of society, the rest of the world? It’s horrific.
Sexual desire twists the brain, especially that of men. I consider myself high average horny, or at least did when I was younger. But in the same way I am able to inhibit myself from stealing when I see an opportunity to grab something I can’t afford, I never used force or coercion when friendly persuasion failed (I have tried to look back and examine my past actions in the light of what we are learning and state this with some confidence, but understand that younger, and less aware me may have crossed lines. But I can’t identify anything at this point). It’s part and parcel of the inhibition of baser impulses and respect for others that is essential to having a functioning civil society. I have a hard time believing that people who give in to impulses to inflict harm on others for sexual gratification (or should I just be saying to exert power over them, as sexual violence is less about sexual gratification than dominance, although it is a particularly hurtful tool of dominance) don’t also transgress other boundaries and are shitty people in many more ways than one. Maybe acting out sexually is some kind of path of least resistance for people with twisted, sociopathic tendencies.
Okay, I thought I had a point to begin with, but I think I find it all too disturbing and confusing to have anything really definitive to say. Maybe just, ‘I don’t care about excuses, rationalizations, apologies or anything else. Just behave like a decent human being and do whatever you can to take responsibility and make things right when you lose self control and hurt others.’ Lame, I know.
He’s been confronted with it multiple times and has had multiple opportunities to do something about it. If things are as he says and is truly remorseful then great but there’s no way to tell short term if he’s being truthful or just saying what we want to hear.
I never enjoyed Louis C.K.'s humor, but for those that do, I think it would be difficult going forward to enjoy his work in light of his confirmation of the allegations, given the breakdown of the “paradox of fiction.”
I understand what you’re saying, and in this context, I see many agree with the “too little, too late” thinking. Its also been pointed out that he didn’t use the words “I am sorry” in his post. While the post indicates he is “remorseful” and it sounds contrite /q “There is nothing about this that I forgive myself for. And I have to reconcile it with who I am. Which is nothing compared to the task I left them with.”.
I will admit that I am a sentimental guy and usually work hard to see other view points. (That’s why I joined this board. I have found intelligent folks discussing today’s events in an earnest attempt to understand.) And I agree that actions must follow, in order to truly correct whatever issue was causing the problem, but for me to forgive myself, I always find I need to hear it from the person I wronged. (as quickly as I can, usually when I finally realize how stupid I was and immediately after). After I have forgiven myself and gained their forgiveness, then I can take action to correct my future behavior.
It’s not that simple. He waited until it was personally the most advantageous course of action to do the right thing. It doesn’t mean he was wrong to write the apology; it means it doesn’t change his culpability or demonstrate his willingness to do the right thing when it isn’t personally advantageous, and it’s the latter that matters to me and a lot of other people. So, as I’ve said several times already, time will tell. And for those who are done with him regardless and simply want him to vanish from the public’s eye, that’s their prerogative.
Mine was a reply to a post regarding watching his work and being creeped out. You are mistaken if you think I’m concerned about comedy fans in this context, quite the contrary; viewers should feel uncomfortable and disgusted by (and critical) of Louis CK. (And the poster I replied to originally, in my estimation, was also not overlooking CK’s crimes for concern of fans, FWIW).
CK’s apology (wherein he never actually said he’s sorry) isn’t mine to accept. I was not a fan of his and now certainly never will be.
An additional real concern now is how many other women he forced this behavior on beyond just the five that publicly accused him. He’ll deserve the loss of income, prestige, power, freedom by what should rightfully follow.
I’m totally biased. I’m a old guy and I have had some interaction with Louis C.K. and I’m somewhat sympathetic toward him and his work but . . . that reads like a real apology to me. He’s said that he knows it was wrong, that he knows he caused real pain, and that he’s owning up to his actions.
Again, I’m totally biased but I think of like this: He made his workplace an unsafe place and people got hurt and their careers were damaged. Treating it as we treat other workplace safety issues makes sense, to me. The problems gets corrected, the person in charge is responsible for damages done, and if things are okay, if damages are accounted for and the likelihood of future damages reduced, then life should continue, hopefully with far fewer loose dicks in the workplace.
It should be noted that at least one of the women involved accepted his personal apology when he made it to them several years ago. This statement wasn’t really an apology to them, but a public statement for everyone else.
I’m still a fan of his, and look forward to seeing his new film, if it ever comes out. I don’t really care if he is/was a creep, I’m capable of separating the art from the artist myself. If others aren’t that’s their decision.
No it doesn’t. You don’t think that a person who causes a workplace accident that causes a death should be charged with first degree murder. You don’t think a person who causes a workplace accident that damages property should be charged with theft or vandalism.
It doesn’t make sense to do this unless you regard Louis C.K. as a machine or a part of the environment rather than as a person who is responsible for the actions they intentionally take. Thinking that men turn into automata when they are in the throes of sexual desire is a sexist myth that is used to deny responsibility for sexual assault.
