If you think that, then you’re being naive.
They are going to use them on the libruls in their midst once the “national divorce” is complete. They’ll gleefully carry out a massive cleansing, and then they see themselves completing the job, by taking over the whole country on some flimsy pretext or another.
but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
I’ll just extract the relevant part, since actually clicking and reading is a big ask…
Apparently you haven’t been paying attention. None of those votes have any legal standing. They are resolutions. The counties have zero legal authority to change states. Even the crankiest of cranks knows and acknowledges that. Idaho knows what the minimum cost would be - in the 100s of billions - and that’s just for lands and buildings. Then there is the ongoing budget suck those counties would drain from the budget.
To add to that, there are several indigenous people’s territories within the proposed area. They get a say in this process, too.
The real kicker would be Oregon’s requirement for relocation funding. Part of the difference between Oregon and Idaho state governments, which apparently the separatists don’t like, is that Oregon actually gives a shit about its residents. Oregon will stipulate as part of any deal that Idaho will have to offer full relocation out of those counties to anyone who doesn’t want to stick around to play victims for the fascist state that results in such a move. Since about 40% of those counties’ population voted against moving, that would represent more billions of funding Idaho would have to pay for this to happen. And the money simply isn’t there. Idaho doesn’t have s big economy - $65B Gross Product, or 1/5 of that of Oregon. The Gross Product of the counties that have voted to leave is less than 10% of Oregon’s economic output. So not much help from those counties. So you’ve got a bill to Idaho that’s several times the entire economic output of the state, many dozens of times the entire state budget - where is that money going to come from?
When I used to have to drive downstate here in Illinois, the amount of stickers on cars that had Illinois with Cook County removed was roughly 1 in 4. They hate Chicago and feel it takes all the money away from them…while working on a state-subsidized farm paying pennies in tax and getting all the benefits.
There’s more corn in southern Illinois than braincells. The failed Governor candidate, who has resumed chain-suing the State, is a prime example. He’s literally a multimillionaire farm owner that is getting piles of state money.
The fascist goofballs will no doubt respond to this with “majority rules, democracy is hard, suck it up” despite the fact that they want to leave because they consider democracy to be “tyranny of the majority” when the votes in Oregon regularly go against them.
They may yet achieve their real goal of separation through force of arms, but no reasonable person thinks there’s a legal and practical or path to get there.
Anybody who has been paying attention to the issue knows the Oregon state government will not let this proceed, and that the State’s approval is required by the Constitution. Even if Idaho really really wanted those counties (that they can’t afford), Oregon can just say no. And, realistically, that’s what would happen. I went into the economics of it above, which is enough of a barrier to shoot the whole thing down, but it won’t even get that far. Forced relocation is also known as genocide; even voluntary relocation is a terrible thing.
ETA: Forgot to address this:
Not in Oregon. The true whackadoodles who would try could be overcome by a club hockey team.
I don’t follow her rantings too closely, but this seems a little more extensive than her normal guff. The framing reminds me of the garbage spread in the lead up to the Brexit vote. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some big donor/organization behind this messaging. While I would like to find this laughable, I’m worried that this sentiment will gain more traction especially if pols and “news” outlets see dollar signs from promoting it.
They vastly over-estimate the people willing to kill others and to die themselves for this. They exist, but it’s no where NEAR the numbers they need to overcome the National Guard, much less the US military.
Now, they can cause some real damage, and kill some people, but they are delusional if they believe they can successfully create a new state via violence.
“Talking around” or referring to mutants in the third person in order to discuss the person rather than their opinions is not cool. Please debate the position, don’t disparage the person.
Maybe I missed something, or some posts were modded before I noticed; I don’t see anyone here talking about anyone else personally, be it directly or indirectly.
What I do see is a LOT of false info, rumors and what seems like straight up lies being posted in support of Empty Greene’s never-ending gish gallop; and I see a lot of rightful pushback against what appears to be a ‘one man disinformation campaign’ in this topic.
For everyone who wishes to engage in good faith:
I think it’s worth noting that at this place and time there are definitely groups of people who are attempting to use any and all internet discourse to bring about war in the US and/or to inflict as much psychological abuse as possible on the population here.
Personally, I’m muting this thread because I don’t wish to waste time with people who engage in those kinds of activities.
I do not think there is a polite debate to be had around the topic of “should I die in a civil war?”
The answer is fuck no and fuck anyone who wishes that on me.
I would add that anyone who is seriously proposing that we can “split” the country in a peaceful manner is not arguing in good faith. There is a mountain of historical evidence to disprove that, and very few examples of that happening peacefully (Czechoslovakia and the Soviet Union - being two counter examples - and look at what’s happening in Ukraine NOW).
For reals, though.
I’m not going to just gladly ‘lay down and die’ for anyone’s unilateral fever dreams of being a ‘master of the universe,’ and I have a hard time believing that many other people will, either.
I suspect it’s more than co-incidence that EmptyG, Kirk, and their ilk are suddenly talking up this fantasy about “national divorces” just as we approach the one-year anniversary of Russia’s attempt to grab Ukrainian territory in Donbas by force. I wouldn’t be surprised if Putin’s tr0ll factories are also stepping up their activity to support the idea that the ideal way to make peace is to give the sham republics their “independence”.
There’s no fascist International, but these scumbags do promote the same agenda when it’s expedient.
She took a brief Twitter break to address the Georgia senate about gender and education. She would like some legislation to train kids to work in her construction business.
IMO, they have tried baiting liberals and socialists into starting a civil war, but we aren’t foolish enough to fall for that. They have realised that it isn’t working so now they are doubling down on genocidal laws, this talk of a national divorce is so they can literally get away with murder if they are allowed to leave.
