Yep. They’re doing better than we atheists on this.
Hell, most of the “YouTube atheists” are the vanguard of these shitheads.
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Not only that, the last time the phrase “religious liberty” was a thing was when they were fighting for tax exempt status for schools that discriminated against blacks. A fight they lost. But it wasn’t until 2000 that Bob Jones University allowed interracial dating. That was 5 years after the SBC officially apologized for racism.
And, while I am on the topic, as recently as 1976 the SBC officially supported full abortion rights. Why did they change their mind? Because some “forward thinkers” in the church saw that racism as a unifying cause wasn’t going to cut it for much longer and they needed a new flag to rally around.
In case anyone was wondering, one of the foundations of their support for abortion rights is Genesis 2:7 where god only puts a soul into Adam after he is fully formed:
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
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I think you mean “kerfuffle.” A kerfuffle is a dust-up. A kerfluffle is a dust-up involving pillows. 
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Just as close minded? Uh, you have to be conspiracy theory level close minded to reality to even entertain the idea of Mormonism in the first place. Southern Baptists are wildly open minded by comparison. Which is sad.
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Also, by definition all Mormon churches are toxic. Really, most churches of any sort are. But those nutjobs (which is the nicest term I can think of) are really only second to Scientologists. Like honestly imagine if they had the exact same beliefs, but about anything other than the already-popular Christian god. They would be rightly laughed out of any serious discussion…but because they were lucky enough to latch themselves onto an existing myth that a bunch of people already believe, they can enjoy their tax-exempt status, their massive corruption and abuse of women and young girls, not to mention their benign acceptance as just regular folks when in reality they are fucking lunatics and outright abusers of young people, who answer to basically no one.
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He’s damaged goods. Michael Bay did terrible things to him.
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Active Mormon here. Those meetings aren’t for speeches or grandstanding, which this certainly was. She’s reading a prepared speech, which is not acceptable at these meetings and an adult is complicit by filming her discreetly (and later posting on YouTube).
Mormons are free to say what they want about sexuality or any other issue, but the leaders–who are all unpaid volunteers by the way–will ask them to step down if they cross over into pushing an agenda.
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And how is this vague phrase defined?
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“Step down” appears to be somewhat euphemistic.
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Yes, how dare she and a complicit adult expose the church’s rampant, abusive bigotry!
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My understanding was that those meetings were a platform for the declaration of one’s spirituality. Is that incorrect?
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Religion gives us explanations for things we can’t explain through science. Some people can’t accept that there are inexplicable things in the world, and having a God who has a Plan that humankind just can’t understand makes them sleep easier at night (or so I’ve been told.)
Organized religion gives people all this and moral guidance and a community third place.
For some, spirituality and a sense of wonder can take the place of religion.
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Is it an actual rule or an unspoken thing they discourage? Either way this girl felt that she had something to say that really mattered to her, knowing they’d push back on her for it. Religion and Christianity is about acceptance and love, but funny how rules get in the way
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So, feeling masochistic, I posted this on a discussion channel frequented by fundamentalists. I engaged in a polite manner, trying to evoke some sense of empathy or circumspection. The mod kicked things off by suggesting that she was a “gay activist” who was parroting something she was exposed to on social media, and it got worse from there.
They’re simply unable to hear it. They can’t hear a gay person say “I was born this way, nothing influenced me to do this,” much less how it feels to be shunned by people they love and respect. It wasn’t a “Well, that’s unfortunate for her, but…” conversation, it was more of a “she’s a leftist who hates religion” conversation. They don’t see fellow human beings, they see bogeymen whose only purpose is to challenge their beliefs. They’re like Daleks, encased in layers of evasion and denial that prevent them from witnessing the damage they so gleefully cause.
And I find this to be characteristic of hard line conservatives—not merely the inability to see things from another’s perspective, but the refusal to acknowledge that any other perspective even exists. People don’t really see the world another way; they only pretend to do so for nefarious purposes.
And if they can’t see the humanity in a 12 year-old girl, what possible way is there to reach them?
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I don’t deny that the Mormon church has a lot to answer for, and a lot of policies I certainly think are harmful. But at the same time, I tend to prefer painting with smaller brushes. Then again, I don’t have any particularly anti-religious chip on my shoulder. Guess I’m just not that edgy or cool.
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You basically answered your statement in your first sentence. The solution you describe is easy when you are already detached from religion and it became a tradition. Like in my native Germany, where the new numbers just came in.
Role of religious beliefs in their lives:
None: 27%
Small: 36 %
Big: 29 %
Very big: 8 %
With those numbers - and I’m sure in practice large American cities aren’t thaaaat different - it’s fairly easy to switch. And even if they are more religious, they have more to choose from, compared to people who live in areas where one religion is predominant, even though it’s only one of many nationwide.
And how is that supposed to happen, when the people who ask get their microphone turned off?
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I don’t know. Two weeks ago I sat in a church at a little girl’s funeral. She died three days before she turned five. Much of the funeral was about how we’d see her again in heaven. I wanted to hard to believe that was true. With tears streaming down my face I wanted to believe it.
I don’t want to take that comfort away from people, even if I can’t have it myself.
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Right. That’s why that’s toxic.
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Today perhaps, but for most of our history there was little or no science for religion to fill in the gaps. Until very recently religion was at the background of most thought, and even alchemy was deeply intertwined with religious ideas. Alchemists were still in some cases at the magic spell level, insisting that operations would only work if you said the right prayers before doing them.
The science/religion dichotomy is a construct of the way things have diverged.
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