The characteristic of the far right is to demonise anybody who differs from their views (and the same of the far left).
My most recent example of this ludicrous name calling was reading an article in the Daily Telegraph (which happened to be lying around where I was staying) in which the author interrupted a comparatively sane article on housing policy to refer to “extreme Marxist communist Jeremy Corbyn” apropos of nothing. Corbyn is a mainstream European social democrat.
Religion in smaller communities is often part of the community itself. The churches, temples and mosques are part of the communities’ identities. It’s not just what you personally believe, but a community you and your family belong to. Leaving a church can for some people mean leaving a huge chunk of their social life. The supernatural is often an afterthought, or something you play along with as a price of belonging to the community.
When I was 12 a classmate brought a dirty magazine he stole from his older brother to school and I couldn’t fucking believe, and not quite understand, what I was looking at.
I was also legitimately distressed when confronted with the information that I was very popular with the girls in my class. Luckily, I soon found an effective remedy for that by dressing in a creepy long black leather coat and becoming a total asshole for at least the next five or six years.
If you want to hear more about Savannah’s journey, and her take on how the whole thing went down in her own words, you can hear it at a podcast episode I profiled her in: http://iliketolookforrainbows.com/2017/05/29/episode-2-savannahs-story/. You can also find the episode and the whole podcast on iTunes and Google Play
Within the same post you quoted i said that while religion may not be necessary i am hopeful that it can change and that it will do more good. I am a cynic but deep down still an optimist, i know religion provides comfort and structure when some people have nothing else to hold onto.
“What, they like me? They think I’m ‘cool’. I’ll show them. I’ll show the world the real me.”
Ironically, I dressed in a trench coat too, though I wasn’t TRYING to be less popular.
I just wish they’d tell the OTHER kids to sit down and shut up.
Jezz Louis, this kids trying to come out at a cult rally. It’s hard enough without every toddler in Utah yapping on and on.
It has been a long time since I was a member but I would have taken her speech over another 10 minutes of uncomfortable dead silence as members surreptitiously glanced around wondering who next to take the hit and volunteer to go up and talk about they know the church is true because the spirit helped them find their car keys in the couch when they were late for a really, REALLY important thing.
As for unpaid volunteers… well, go high enough and you’ll certainly find the money:
But you’re right at the lower levels. There I expect is is all about the service, prestige , and maybe even the occasional power kick of shutting off a mike and telling someone to go sit down.
This reminds me of the Catholic Church’s stance on gay people as well. For years, their more or less official position was that gay people were trollies bent on infiltrating the Church and warping it to fit their agenda. Because, y’know, one can’t be gay and Catholic/Mormon/Baptist/whatever at the same time. They have to be infiltrators and activists, as opposed to real human beings trying to figure shit out in their lives.
Totally agree. It’s not about the God Of The Gaps, but about trying to figure out if there is an existence beyond the physical, and if so, how it relates to us as humans. In other words, finding peace with existence and finding a place in the universe. I’m not endorsing any religion, but “here we are, just accept it and move on” has never been a satisfactory answer to me.
The merging of the two was only temporary. Most of the alchemists knew they were scientists, but had to couch their work in religious mumbo-jumbo to gain acceptance. The ancients made great strides scientifically, which the religious leaders in Dark Ages tried to suppress. They actually tried to deny that the Earth was round and revolved around the Sun, even though any idiot can plainly see that that is true.
Also, much of the biblical literalism of today, including Creationism, is based on racism. We don’t want to think that white people have the same ancestors as black people, hence Creationism.
Why so bitter? The top leadership are full-time and have a salary, but it’s not extravagant.
The community certainly has flaws–like any–but all I see is flawed but sincere people doing their best. Sometimes mistakes are made.
I don’t think pouring millions of dollars into campaigns to ensure that LGBT people are second-class citizens falls into the category of “mistakes were made”.
Most organized religions have a pretty negative stance on the LGBT community and rights, the criticism of the Mormon faith is warranted but i’d like to remind everyone that inroads need to be made with other faiths as well.
Also higher ranking people in other churches also get paid. I have no idea what the amount would be though. I mean, The Catholic church has their own bank and they also have Vatican City (their own state) and The Holy See (a sovereign entity). That’s a lot of power and money for a religious faith
This whole thing really is a violation of the community’s expectations. The problem isn’t with what she said. I’ve never seen anyone speak from prepared notes during these meetings, and recording it is really not okay. These are meant to be private meetings where the community speaks from the heart and allows themselves to be vulnerable. Some may argue that’s what she was doing, but preparing for it in advance and recording it turns it from an authentic expression of the moment into something else. The content doesn’t really matter; anyone doing those things on any subject would likely get the same result.
I thought we were talking about the microphone getting turned off. We can disagree about the meaning of campaigns.
Do you think had she said what she said from the heart, without reading and without recording, that they would have let her finish? It’s a bit of speculation i understand, considering that’s not what actually happened, but i suspect the result would have been the same. Or are you of the opinion they would have been open to her message?
Not asking these questions in a way to attack or what have you. Just trying to see what your honest opinion on it is.
Most likely. It might have caused some discomfort or chatter, but the community is usually very tolerant of sincere expressions of doubt or of feelings that don’t jibe with accepted doctrine. We’re not all expected to be in lock-step with each other.
I’m not claiming the community is perfect–none is. People make mistakes and things get handled badly. The local leaders like this one have ordinary jobs the rest of the week, so they can make bad calls occasionally. I don’t know if this was one of them.
Maybe the Mormon community by you is more tolerant. Not that i ever got a vibe of intolerance in year i lived in a primarily Mormon town, but pretty sure someone coming out as gay or affirming their sexuality during a Mormon service would not have gone over well.
I see this more of a symptom of how religion operates in general though, not just Mormonism. I can’t imagine these kinds of LGBT affirmations or conversations happening in other religious settings. However if some communities are more accepting then i think that’s important progress that needs to be shared. This is why i don’t have a problem with this girl’s speech being recorded, had the church let it fly it would have done a lot of good for other people struggling with their faith and sexuality. Do you not agree?
I agree that there wouldn’t be a community celebration at “coming out”. But if it had been handled differently, I don’t believe she would have been publicly cut off.
It’s possible it should have been handled differently; I wasn’t there. But I can say as a community that we ASPIRE to being tolerant and loving people the way they are. There will be people in any meeting that are good at that, and some that aren’t so much.
That’s good to hear! Can you link me to a national statement or two on the church’s part that expresses full and unambiguous support for LGBTQ+ rights?
Nice. I can tell you sincerely want to understand my community.
