Whatever you say, Governor.
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Yet, you’re questioning if they are women, by saying that they are “different” than cis-women.
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Or maybe not.
After the Semenya case in 2009, the IAAF had convened a working group to advise on how to manage female athletes with elevated testosterone levels.
Among that group was Liz Ferris, a medical doctor and former Olympian, who was advocating on behalf of athletes. She sought the advice of Peter Sonksen, the lead author of this article. Coincidentally, he was part of a research team that was investigating the hormone profiles of female and male athletes.
This study measured hormone profiles, including testosterone, from a sample of 693 elite athletes across 15 sporting categories. There were many unexpected findings.
For example, 16.5% of men had a testosterone level below 8.4 nanomole per litre (the lower limit of the normal male reference range). Some were unmeasurably low. And 13.7% of the elite female athletes had a level higher than 2.7nmol/l, the upper limit of the normal reference range for women. Some were in the high male range.
Thus, there was a complete overlap of testosterone levels between male and female elite athletes. This challenged existing knowledge, which had assumed there was no such overlap.
Frustratingly for Ferris, the IAAF working group ignored this research. Instead, it proceeded to introduce its flawed – but now suspended – “hyperandrogenism” rule.
ETA: Article linked from article posted by @anon61221983
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Look, this is very simple. If it comes up that women’s sports at some level are consistently dominated by trans women, then they could look into making a cis women’s league. (Not keeping them out of women’s, and the difference is important.) But despite all the handwringing and bans, it never has in any of them. The problem is purely hypothetical, and it’s not hard to see who invented the hypothetical and why.
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Also, see @danimagoo’s excellent comment on this topic.
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But that doesn’t actually have anything to do with trans people. It has to do with hormone levels right now. A history of high testosterone isn’t grounds for restriction for either men or women in elite sports.
And ultimately, those IOC rules are, IMO, wrong. They do not have the right to ban people from competition for their natural state. They were wrong to ban Caster Semenya from competition and make her take testosterone blockers to requalify for competition. And the European Court of Human Rights agrees with me.
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OK, so the only real example of a trans woman excelling at an elite level that I am aware of is Lia Thomas winning the 500 free at NCAA div 1 nationals. In field that historically underperformed. She won with the 15th fastest time in that meet’s history, almost (IIRC) 10 sec off the world record. Also, the other events she swam in, she did not dominate either. IMHO, this should really put the issue to bed.
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Where did the idea that testosterone is a huge advantage in a physical activities come from? Besides misogyny.
There is more variation in speed, strength and dexterity within genders then there is between the average of women and the average of men. The chess federation didn’t create a women’s section because testosterone somehow makes you smarter or more able to concentrate or have a better grasp of spatial concepts. They did it because the male chess players were absolutely toxic misogynists.
Misogyny is also the origin of most women’s league sports. Women’s leagues were not created because the women were weaker or less skilled than their male counterparts. They were created because the male athletes were misogynist jerks and wouldn’t let the women play.
That’s why we have title ix for sports in schools- that part about how the women’s programs cannot be less-than the men’s programs. Because women were forced out of sports until they had their own teams and laws to enforce some measure, not much, fairness between mens and women’s teams.
This idea that trans women are somehow super athletes is ridiculous. There are so many examples of cisgendered women who absolutely destroy most of their male counterparts in head to head contests.
And yet you cannot see the systemic unfairness of excluding trans people from the sports leagues and teams of their gender?!
Back to the subject: this governor’s ridiculous declarations of what constitutes a man and what constitutes a woman. You really can’t measure all men against all women or even most men against most women. There’s just too much variation with genders.
I am a cisgendered woman. My shoulders are broader than the cisgendered man I am married to. I am the designated jar opener in our house. And really neither of us is far outside the average for our genders.
This proclamation is rooted in a hatred of trans people and a hatred of women. And it’s not going to do the men any good either. Too many men already feel like they are not masculine enough, whatever the hell masculine is supposed to be.
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Honestly I think it is because fundamentally women’s athletic prowess is undervalued by people to an extreme that they just ultimately are often unwilling to even consider in themselves. Often when people talk about this subject it is as if they imagine the average woman is going to be competing when in reality almost all below-average girl athletes do not pursue sports even in cases where, for pure physical well-being and socialization alone, they might benefit from doing so…
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It’s like bigots getting pissed about HBCU’s, which only exist because previous generations of bigots wouldn’t allow Black folks to attend White universities.
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Just like the assumptions that were made about the graves of certain elite hunters and warriors in the past. Paleontologists are finding out that those elite hunters and warriors were women. That despite the assumptions to the contrary, it was probably the women who were hunting down the mastodons.
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ROFLMAO
Oh, stop, already!
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Exactly. And just like HBCU’s, they continue to exist because women continue to be excluded and/or subjected to so much misogyny on a men’s team.
Like the damned chess thing.
ETA: and the HBCUs are often really good schools
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Absolutely fair. This and the data provided in the scientific article above have removed any of my lingering doubts at any level.
I hope that doesn’t sound sarcastic or facetious, because it’s absolutely not.
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I definitely came here for that. Tips 
.
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I like it. I’d definitely like to see the most successful soccer player of all time — Christine Sinclair, of Burnaby, BC — fairly compensated for her achievements.
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And given there hasn’t been an instance yet of a trans person actually dominating a sport, an entirely moot discussion as well.
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The only reason for a “legal” distinction between two groups is so the law can treat them differently. Typically with the restrictions of rights of one group.
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Yeah, my running endurance hasn’t exactly improved since I started HRT two years ago. Shifting center of gravity, a bit of weight gain, and reduction in muscle mass hasn’t improved my performance one bit! Apparently that testosterone I had naturally when I was a teen isn’t making me a super-athlete. (Maybe next year? That’s the way this works, right?)
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