I wonder if their are any bookies taking that action?
Bookies decide the election don’t they? Of course they do. My current President told me so. /s
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That’s a very good point @ArcLighter Was their every really a cabinet in the first place. Did any of those people ever actually get confirmations?
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I guess I am hung up on the distinction between “able” and “willing” here, though I can certainly see the case that Turmp just has to go, now, by any means necessary.
Like, it’s fine to stomp a roach, but it is better to have an exterminator grab that roach with a pair of tweezers, and examine it with one of those headlamp magnifier thingies and say “yep, this roach is Evil, we’re gonna tent the whole building and flood it with forbidden E605 insecticide”.
Obviously there is still a massive danger of Senate Republicans betraying humanity again, but at least now they have no excuses. There’s no ambiguity or tactical calculation, just a straight-up vote on whether Turmp’s crimes are OK or not. If they manage to do the right thing, then Turmp will at last be finished and disgraced in the most official way possible.
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Except that they aren’t. The Democrats finally seem to have discovered that they don’t have to be totally without spine, gonad, feck, gorm, and hap. They are pushing through impeachment, adding real financial penalties for maskholes, and hammering away at traitors in the House and Senate. Biden started out timid but is using the t-word to describe this. And investigations from the FBI and military on down are moving fast.
All it took was a howling lynch mob invading the halls of Congress out for blood to get the Dems’ heads out of their collective ass.
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Pence might consider removing himself, seeing as he clearly suffers from Stockholm Syndrome~
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Trump apparently also never asked where Pence or his family were during all the attack.
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ETA: dammit, missed @Bfarnn’s post.
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See Clinton, William 1998.
All these tools can and will be used by people acting in bad faith, but that shouldn’t get them off the table for times when they are needed. The 25th has been under discussion by cabinet members off and on throughout the presidency. Listening to unedited Trump you can tell that it isn’t much of a stretch.
And we get to see everyone’s vote.
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You don’t need to invoke the 25th because he’s guilty.
It would be a pretty good idea to invoke the 25th because he’s is no longer acting as the president. And may very well be incapable of doing so safely.
I’m also pretty sure you can do both. 25th him so we can have clarity as to who is acting as president and cut him off from causing more damage. Impeach to cut off his benefits and ability to run again, while convicting him of a crime. So long as the house vote goes through while he’s still in office he can be tried after he is gone.
They are meant for two different purposes. It’s just that both purposes are obviously in play.
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karma told me that trumps mob is actually going to kill pence on the next attack.
And only caries the penalty of removal from office and possibly disqualification for future office. No jail time, nothing else. A pardon would eliminate 99% of the real consequences of what Trump has done.
Now apologize to carrots and slime molds. At least you did mention their undeniable charisma, so I will let that slide.
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Translation: “I still need the wacko GOP base if I want to have any future in politics.”
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Today my parent’s (who have been following the scarce news we get through TV) asked me to explain what was happening today and I told them “The VP is so spineless that instead of burying his head on the ground when asked about applying the 25th, he hid his head inside his arse”.
They are still laughing. At least something good came out of the situation.
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For me at least, there isn’t much distinction. There may be many reasons why someone isn’t doing their job, but ultimately he wasn’t.
Absolutely. I don’t think “temporary” removal via the 25th amendment would have obviated the need for impeachment. The 25th amendment was the “in case of emergency” button that would have let Pence do a hopefully better job of managing the crisis. Impeachment and removal is the slower (but still should have happened already) legal repercussion for inciting an insurrection.
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I hope they’re finally getting a clue, but last I heard, there were still a few Democrats talking about “unity” and “moving past it.” Maybe the revelations of recent days have changed their minds. I hope so.
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Regarding the “why not both” option:
If Pence did use 25A, could Trump use it to his advantage by claiming he’s too mentally unfit to stand trial during impeachment?
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While I despise Vice President Pence, my feeling is that he is technically correct. But if 
tries, for example, launching nukes just to watch the world burn, then I think the 25th is needed, and hopefully already in place (documents prepared, signed, and just waiting for a date).
Pence isn’t trump or anyone trump would like to fuck such as his own daughter. Therefor he doesn’t factor into trump’s cosmology.
Not invoking the 25th won’t save him. He didn’t stop the vote count and proclaim Trump king. In the eyes of coup-seekers, Pence doesn’t have any future.
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