Just once I’d like the official corporate press release to be, simply, “We refuse to have bigots on the payroll, so we fired him.”
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Your reasoning is a wee bit problematic in a race to the bottom sort of way. I don’t want my right to be protected from discriminatory firing to be in any way linked to racist incitement! I would argue instead that given his use of ‘fighting words’, his speech is not protected.
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You bring up a good argument about the slippery slope.
Just to explore a different angle and play devil’s advocate, why would you fire him if he worked for you? What difference does it make if his speech is inflammatory, as opposed to merely offensive, as long as 1) he wasn’t arrested, so he’s able to show up for work, and 2) he’s not a spokesperson for the company, so what he says in his free time is not the company’s business?
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and then raise the hackles of quite a few people working there. all while clearly representing beliefs, attitudes and actions the company has publicly stated it does not stand for, and indeed abhores.
Not only do his incredibly racist statements, noises and actions border on assault, but he commited them in a video that’s gone viral. Both should be “the company’s business,” and the latter especially MAKES it their “business” – not firing him would cut right into their business.
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I think the actions that cross the line (especially in combination) are…
- He actively harasses people who are peacefully protesting.
- He calls the gentleman filming a ni**er and makes chimp noises at him
- He refuses to leave when they make it clear that he’s not welcome in their personal space
Legality should NOT be the line we have to draw here, that’s a red herring. Laws are only one component of maintaining a civil society, and leaning on them creates situations where people think it’s okay to race to the bottom and break the rules we could handle in kindergarten because ‘everyone else is’. That’s one of society’s problems and we shouldn’t be enabling assholery.
Honestly, if somebody thinks it’s okay to go out of their way to ruin other people’s days then I think they have some growing up to do and don’t deserve the same considerations as those who are perfectly capable of being decent to other people.
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Because they treat others with compassion? I’m sorry, it really doesn’t take two brain cells to rub together to understand that comparing other human beings to animals is way past offensive and needs to go. I agree we can have a dialogue about fracking, especially considering it’s been a (very short term) job creator. But once you start with the racist BS, you’ve shown you have no interest in dialogue at all.
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Eh, it’s Pennsylvania. Fracking there doesn’t cause earthquakes so much as allow you to set your tap water on fire.
Why you gots to be all alarmist? No extra charge!
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As Mark said, PA is an “at-will” state. They can fire you for the part in your hair.
Heyyyyy, you work with albill…
Oh, you changed your name.
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With all do respect sir you can’t jist make people disappear!
I’m the chief inspector, yes I can (smirk)
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Wait - you’re a member of the management class?
I thought you were one of us!
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Its simple…
This guy is uneducated and fearful. It’s obvious that people who have no regard for themselves or others no matter the race or ethnicity, are insecure. So they do what bullies have always done since I was born into this world, they try to put others down to make themselves look better or superior or whatever their warped sense of thinking will push them to do.
So he feels as if he can pick on a black guy, who obviously is more educated than he is and not intimidated by his juvenile comments.
It’s ashamed that some of my own culture (white americans) like this can’t grow up, get an education and try to help better this workd instead of tearing people of other races down. Come on! Really? So who’s wasting REAL tax dollars? This idiot who is obviously not smart enough to just go on about his business instead of disrupting peaceful people.
He’s a sicko.
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Thanks for voicing that. I have the same uneasiness. Yeah, he’s an asshole, but the ethics of firing someone for what they think and do outside of the workplace is troublesome.
Where do we draw the line? What if I support someone for President that the boss doesn’t? What if the boss doesn’t allow swearing in the office - can he fire me for swearing at the bowling alley?
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The irony (?) is that I’ve wanted to change my 'nym to my real name - I’ve been trying to get my online presence to be more uniform and owned for years.
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I think harassing people who don’t want you to harass them is a fair line. There is no slippery slope here.
It’s not the same as what’s legal, but they’re two totally different things and we’ve kind of demonstrated that our laws have nothing to do with little concepts like ‘can you treat others with respect’
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If you’re pro-ISIL, can I fire you?
only if he harassed people while in his pro-ISIS role (if I understand William’s fair line correctly)
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I thought the argument was that if you did legal but morally repressive things (by the standards of your community), it is ok to punish you for it by making you lose your livelihood.
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Legally in most states, yes?
For the purposes of the post you replied to
If I’m minding my own business and not actively harassing other people, then we’re on the other side of the slippery slope and it’s a completely different conversation.
Similarly, even though I’m very anti-ISIL, if I were to go up to individuals I believe aren’t appropriately anti-ISIL and verbally harangue them and throw racial epithets at them then I’m most definitely back on the ‘can’t treat others with respect’ side of things and suddenly relevant to the conversation again. It doesn’t mean I ‘should be fired’, but I shouldn’t be whiny if my employer is concerned even if it WASN’T a viral incident.
I suppose you can use ‘Verbal Abuse’ for a semi-clear definition but honestly the point here is not to be legalistic but instead to stick to obvious limits of civil behavior that most grade schoolers are fully capable of understanding.
Note that this in NO WAY has anything to do with private behavior or consenting behavior with other adults. That is back in slippery slope territory.
Nope, we’re specifically talking about harassing other individuals. I’ve been very consistent on this point in this thread.
If you’re slapping yourself with dead fish at home or worshiping Yngvie Malmsteen;s toenails (consensually if they’re currently on his feet) then that’s outside the boundary I defined.
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