if I look at the comments in this thread he is mostly consistent in arguing that the harassment shown in the video is a valid reason for the pink slip.
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Iām like to think Iāve been completely consistent rather than merely mostly. Iāve never been confused about the subject. 
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your very first comment in this thread : P
This man is not meeting the minimum threshold to be considered a civilized adultthe sentence (and the rest of the paragraph) does not argue with the actual harassment but a wishy-washy "uncivilized" rationale
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Thatās not wishy-washy at all. Civility is very specifically about interactions with others and not about what you believe or do with others with informed consent.
Meanwhile, I NEVER said that what somebody thinks or does on their own time (or with other consenting adults) is a viable reasoning.
Everything else was just clarification. Still no slippery slope. Iām going to stick to my ācompletely consistentā stance. Clarification within a defined boundary does not mean inconsistency.
Edit: Also in the same post that you referred to:
That is in no way comparable to protesting to help others or even doing wacky-but-harmless things on your own time.
As for definitionsā¦
Wikipedia (but seriously, all the definitions are like this)
Civility is the act of engaging with others in a constructive manner. Some definitions conflate civility with politeness, which suggests disengaging with others so as not to offend (āroll over and play deadāā¦[1]). The notion of constructive civility suggests robust, even passionate, engagement framed in respect for differing views. In his call for restoring civility, Pastor Rick Warren said, āIn America, weāve got to learn how to disagree without demonizing each other.ā [2]
Community, choices, conscience, character are all elements directly related to civility. Civility goes beyond mere manners, which is how a civil attitude often forms, this and other elements of civility, are often what creates more meaningful friendships and relationships.
The act or engagement of civility in conversation is commonly referred to as civil discourse. Kenneth J. Gergen suggests that respect of all participants must be respected in civil discourse, as āthe language of dispassionate objectivityā.[3] Freemasonry has been a long-standing supporter of allowing and perpetuating alternative voices and ideas, promoting democratic habits of generous listening and civil discourse.[4]
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the supreme court does not agree with you. they have allowed people to harass women seeking an abortion almost into the door of the clinic as a part of their constitutional right to free speech. right or wrong, the right to free expression has a highly protected place in american jurisprudence. i have a hard time imagining a worse form of harassment than hectoring someone who has reached the end of a painful decision only to have it second-guessed by one or more hectoring fanatics some of whom may be carrying signs or placards describing their decision as murder or showing pictures of aborted fetuses. when i joined a black lives matter march there were people along the street who were shouting racial slurs and profanity at us. i was not shocked by this because i fully expected it to happen. when you choose to protest in favor of an oppressed minority or against a protected industry that kind of verbal abuse is par for the course. the same logic which leads to the firing of someone for their behavior at a protest while they are on their own time, a logic which you applaud in that case, is the same logic which could have resulted in my being fired for joining a blm demonstration or to the fracking protesters who were being verbally harassed. simply because i am defending that assholeās right to be an asshole does not mean i concur with his actions, far from it.
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I hate that guy who made those remarks, but I will DIE for his right to say what he said at the out of his work premises place in front of the people. If you Americans do not defend people lie that guy, you will soon lose all your freedoms. In fact you are losing them already. Read how his company responded to the incident: āHate speech,ā ādiversityā and other ideological nonsense and immediately firing the guy. Disgusting!! I sense here a deep fear of being labeled as a racist. The latter is the biggest fear of all Americans like in middle ages people were petrified of being accused in being witches. At least we have internet. Hope with its help, we will intellectually phase out the PC watch dogs. Happy New Year. Fight for liberty and freedom of speech.
You have the freedom to state your beliefs, but you have no guarantee of freedom from consequences.
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Right, thatās why the rest of that post wasā¦
So Iām saying that being required to keep somebody around at the workplace and sending somebody to jail are (and should be) entirely different thresholds.
Were you verbally harassing other people? If not than you youāre on the other side of the slippery slope.
You can defend peopleās rights to behave peacefully and not defend peopleās rights to be cruel to other people. You do NOT have to take one with the other. This isnāt the only civilization in the world and many of the ones that we havenāt run roughshod over have no issues with this sort of thing.
Assholery doesnāt have to be a right. Thatās just what the assholes are trying to trick people into believing.
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Except all those fake Americans who fear actually being victims of racist murder at the hands of the police. Because only white people are real Americans, amitire?
And as stupid, unhelpful, and racist as your comment is, I wouldnāt fire you for it (although Iād certainly make every effort to avoid ever engaging anything you ever did outside of work time)*. Why? Because itās not fighting words, itās a just an ill-considered comment on a blog.
Because theyāre sexist d-bags. If they were to logically apply free speech precident to those decisions, they never would have found in favour of screetching clinic-attackers. But when you take power into consideration, the right to free speech that freebird123 is so ready to DIE for has always meant the right to punch down and to harass people with less social or political capital. That kind of overwrought defence of free speech has always been in favour of powerful people pissing on less powerful people.
The UK is a free country (more or less), but without this free speech absolutism. In practice, this has meant that the police at least pretend to take an interest in verbally threatening behaviour. Because, trust me, itās impossible to tell if somebody using slur words at you is just being an asshole or is working himself up to physical assault.
*Actually, this would depend on your job. If you were working in HR, or teaching students or in any position dealing with people who had less power than you and who needed to rely on your discretion or judgement, Iād look to move you out of them.
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So if he was harrassing Fred Phelpsā church at one of their protests, youād be ok with a guy being fired for that too or is that one ok because Fred Phelps and his family are raging assholes (which they are)? What about pro and anti abortion demonstrations and counter demonstrations?
The reason people here fall back on the legal standard over and over is that it is a standard, which āI think this person is legally ok but morally over the line isnāt.ā The latter can be used to suppress unpopular views and has historically.
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There was a joke before the Revolution, that we had freedom of speech too, we just didnāt have the freedom after the speech.
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When itās an image a company is trying to protect, the personal conduct agreement is usually up front during the hiring process. Itās voluntary compliance. So firing this guy is likely along those lines, and that company is completely within their right to do so. Iām glad they did.
Depends on the company and the agreement. The ones I have signed have been fairly specific about what I could and could not be fired for.
Iāve never seen or signed a āpersonal conduct agreement.ā Iām skeptical of how common they are.
As to my opinion of companies that fire people simply for PR reasonsā¦wellā¦
- while I didnāt mention it in your reply because I wasnāt thinking about this particular scenarios, Iāve mentioned āpeaceful protestingā more than once.
If Fredās being peaceful and I get in his face and start insulting him, refuse to leave, and continue being an asshole then Iām still violating the basic rules of civility. (even without the racism)
Iām ALSO being terribly uncreative.
Meanwhile, obviously if thereās tit-for-tat and an escalation thatās NOT the same thing as āthey were minding their own business and behaving peacefully and I walked up and started going off on themā
No, itās because we canāt arrest somebody for being a complete asshole (should we be able to? Are all laws just and fair? NOT the discussion)
Iām saying (repeatedly) that since many states are free-to-work, then harassing peaceful people is more than enough reason to let somebody go and give somebody who can act like a civilized adult a chance.
You can have unpopular views without HARASSING OTHER PEOPLE. Thatās the line for civil society. Thatās in the definition of civility.
Again: Simple. Just because itās socially acceptable to be an asshole doesnāt mean it HAS to be.
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I hear you. Again, it depends on the company. Not all are alike. Some have more at stake than others in the image dept.
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Iām told my former manager, and not I, is cleared to answer security questions from reporters. It may have something to do with my attitude and how often I say āfuckingā¦ā when PR is asking me what I think about a security incident and reportersā questions.
In other words, Iāve worked with several PR departments and I know exactly how chickenshit they can be at times (same with legal and HR, as a manger).
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All righty. Point made.
I still donāt think people should be fired for subjective impressions that they are a raging asshole on their own time.
I understand the realpolitik that in an āat willā world for work serfs, weāll be fired any time we embarrass our mastersemployers enough, rightly or not.
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I worked in a manger once and it stank like hell. Office mates were total sheep and full of shit.
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Well, Iām not saying āshould be firedā, Iām saying āa company should be well within their rights when thereās situations like the one we saw in the video for reasons that have nothing to do with PRā and certainly not āshould have to pretend it never happenedā because this goes beyond private and personalā¦itās other people now.
I also think it should be okay for the employer just to be concerned, thatās the sort of impulse control issue that Iād be very concerned about myself and in a couple of the situations where I managed people (Iāve admittedly run from management roles. Hates them I does) Iād like to be within my rights to free up that spot for somebody whoās not a risk.
Considering people can get fired for pretty much anything these days, I think if I acted like that I should be concerned that Iād have to straighten up my act to keep my job, far more so than for smoking weed or deciding I want to be gay or protest for civil rights or something.
