Well - the big difference there is that those are single use facilities. One person at a time. So a place with small bathrooms (e.g. gas stations) where there is one toilet, there really is no reason to have separate genders. Larger places though have multiple stalls and there is where the problem starts. What makes you uncomfortable or not? Unfortunately this goes beyond just trans people. We had a pretty simple binary system at one point, with a 3rd “family” option in some places (usually larger rooms with diaper changing etc.)
Here is the deal. I agree we shouldn’t make trans people feel unnecessarily uncomfortable. But at the same time, other people’s discomfort isn’t something I think we can completely dismiss. I mean we have been told since we could talk about protecting our bodies, covering up, stranger danger, etc. Even people who rationally don’t have a problem with it, can still FEEL uncomfortable. It is going to take time for this new paradigm to get used to.
There is no real simple answer. I pretty much agree that a trans person who looks male should use the male room, and one who looks female should use the female room. I don’t really have a problem with that. But then where do you put say, straight transvestites? What about pervs posing as transvestites, or lazy pervs who look male who just say they identify as female? As a women, would that make you uncomfortable? What about if you have a female child? I personally have had to deal with my child’s mother freaking out about bathroom breaks because that is the 3 min she isn’t in my immediate field of vision. Right now she feels pretty safe about my kid in the women’s room. But she is pretty irrational about things. I don’t know how she feels about trans people, but I am sure transvestite using the same room as my daughter wouldn’t fly.
Now I want to temper this with understanding 99.99%+ of people using the bathroom are just trying to piss, maybe do a line of coke, and get on with their day. But at the same time we already hear horror stories of up skirt predators, people hiding cameras in bathrooms, and other wise preying on women. I think people abusing new rules meant to be more inclusive is a concern that merits some thought. But at the same time I recognize you can never really keep every one from getting off their secret jollies. I mean right now, gay men could be getting off watching other pee or what ever. That’s probably more likely to happen than a perv using new rules to enter the women’s room (maybe?). But while there are certain rules of etiquette in the men’s room, I don’t think most of us care or freak out about it. Though I will say people tend to be more protective with women, partly because so many do abuse or take advantage of them.
So… solutions? I guess ending 300 some years of US Puritanical views with nudity and bodies is too much to ask for. Though unisex bathrooms would be an ideal solutions. I see them in a few place. Local restaurant has a bathroom with a unisex area for washing hands etc, and each stall has its own private room/stall. I actually like and prefer the sturdier stalls, and have no problem washing my hands with who ever in the community area.
Who are they identifying as? They can use the correct toilet for their current identity.
I’m in Britain, where the government are mostly unconcerned about which toilet trans people use (There are still a few rare people who are). I transitioned nearly 15 years ago and I have never encountered a perv in the women’s toilet. Sadly I can’t say the same about men’s toilets over a similar time period before that.
Like the “voter ID” laws, the bathroom bill seems to be targeting certain vulnerable populations in the guise of solving a problem that is more or less imaginary.
Like I said, I tempered this with “99.99%+ of people using the bathroom are just trying to piss”.
I don’t know about cases like that, but 1) there are predators out there, 2) there are people who do things like hide cameras or do up skirt photos, or groping in public. 3) this could embolden or allow these same people to do more.
I agree this might be more or less an unfounded fear (like shark attacks) - but the fear is going to be there, rational or not. How do you soothe those fears?
I don’t recall ever reading or hearing even ONE account of a cisgendered person pretending to be transgendered so they could enter the opposite-gendered restroom and perv on the occupants. And if they ever did, existing laws would likely be sufficient to charge them with something.
Shark attacks, though overblown, actually do happen from time to time. The “bathroom bill” is more along the lines of criminalizing people with back hair in the guise of stopping Sasquatch attacks.
I haven’t either, but I have heard of men caught in women’s restrooms all the time. If it were legal for them to be there because they were in a dress, why wouldn’t they use that tactic? There are already pervs who go in there to peep and jack off dressed as men. Having plausible deniability only further empowers them.
And while I and you haven’t heard of it, just a quick google search shows it does happen.
Again, this may or may not be a huge problem, but I guarantee you people like my child’s mother are concerned about predators.
I don’t have all the answers, but I think any solutions we figure out need to be consider this.
You’ll note that the man was indeed charged with a crime and he didn’t use “I’m a trans woman with a right to be here!” as a defense. Even if he had it wouldn’t have made any difference in the voyeurism charge.
So no, not really the same thing and certainly not a demonstration that we need new laws to fight that kind of behavior.
Probably the only reason there wasn’t is because gay people are able to hide in plain sight. Generally gay people are imprisoned, killed or left alone without a lot of in-between.
Being trans is so taboo that this is virtually unthinkable. Even as we accept trans people more and more, people are really, really attached to their gender identities.
I’m sorry. It’s not dumb, so much as constant. I get the worries, but the people I see hurt are transgender folks, especially trans feminine people who don’t read as cis gendered to society at large.
The violence trans people face just trying to pee is ridiculous. I would withhold drinking any fluids to avoid peeing at work at a swanky law firm because I got accosted by a coworker. At fucking work. It was early in my transition, and I would hunt down Subway sandwich shops for the safety of a single toilet bathroom. I’m not even in a higher violence bracket as a white trans guy. Now that I read as cis male to most folks I can relax, but I have decades of bathroom avoidance habits and concerns.
So the way I see it, transgender folks have far more to fear from people in The bathroom than cis gendered folks do. Yet, these concerns come up again, and again without any basis.
The “bathroom bills” currently being introduced at the state level don’t confer additional legal rights for trans people, they explicitly CRIMINALIZE transgendered use of bathrooms. If “I’m a trans woman” isn’t a legal defense for perving now then what’s the point of those bills?
I’m so sorry to hear that you have had to deal with so much bullshit.
It’s been so eyeopening as I’ve learned more about it, and I am trying to learn more and be more supportive as I do. I feel like sometimes I am being so clumsy about it all, but as I meet more trans people, I am growing so concerned about them.
I am not for any bill that criminalizes trans-gendered use of bathrooms. I am pointing out where the difficulties in legislating this issue lie. I didn’t refer to the “bathroom bills” initially, just the general concept.
I don’t know what the point of the bills are. They are either an honest yet ignorant attempt at protecting the public, or a dishonest attempt to discriminate against people.
If these bills are being sponsored by politicians representing the brand R, you can bet good money that ^this is the point. A solution in search of a psychologically projected problem.
