The "transactional love economy"


#96

Maybe or maybe not, but the wife isn’t given an opportunity to weigh in on that. There is something being kept from her. But, really, that is for her to decide if it’s a betrayal, not really us. I think @milliefink’s question was less about assigning intent to the mans actions, more about wondering what made the relationship worth hiding in the first place. Maybe it was the monetary aspect of it? But the point is that if you’re decided to settle down with someone and be monogamous, hopefully, you’d be able to get to a point of total honest with them. If not, maybe you should leave that person, and find some other relationship that satisfies one’s needs, or maybe just not be in a relationship… I have no problem with non-monogamy or what have you, but not having it all above board I think shows a lack of respect for the other person in the relationship. And all too often, people who cheat on their spouses/partners, flip out at the slightest indication that the other person is doing the same.


#97

I think this is a big part of it. Women tend to be more concerned about emotional fidelity, and it may not seem like a good bet to make this public even where nothing of the sort is going on.

But the point is that if you’re decided to settle down with someone and be monogamous, hopefully, you’d be able to get to a point of total honest with them. If not, maybe you should leave that person, and find some other relationship that satisfies one’s needs, or maybe just not be in a relationship…

Maybe, but that seems very black and white. Maybe the whole issue is a damp squib, and being open would have no negative consequences, and the arrangement could continue as before. I can understand the reluctance to bet your mental health and marital happiness on that outcome though.

It’s unfortunate that people can’t be honest with each other about everything, but family life involves a lot of compromise and coming to terms with your own and your partner’s flaws, while trying not to screw up your kids and keep up with all the other responsibilities in life. Sometimes it’s understandable that people who are generally happy with their relationship put up with areas where things are imperfect, and go with what works rather than rocking the boat or taking the bet of starting from scratch.


#98

This.
All this is so paternalistic its amazing. All these lies and half truths and secrets, and for what? Because the wife “might” not understand correctly, and I guess the fear is, then leave? Or cause the friendship to end? Its an amazing spin to put the blame squarely on the wife, the secrets and the lies and potential fall out, its all her fault isn’t it? Its certainly not his fault for keeping secrets and having weird friendships that he knows would cause upset. Nope, its her, poor unenlightened prude of a woman, if only she could be more evolved… its for her own good that she’s kept in the dark, obviously. (seriously I’m rolling my eyes so hard here I think I hurt myself!)


#99

You and me both - nobody else is talking about blame.

People keep secrets from each other partly because there are no perfectly compatible people out there, and sometimes people take the path of least resistance. It’s a messy compromise, but it’s very human and doesn’t necessarily imply that you don’t care about the other person.


#100

Bingo.


#101

It’s interesting how you repeatedly expand the issue and circumstance out to such generalities that they become platitudes with which few would disagree. Yes, obviously, any two people will have disagreements at times and do have to make compromises. But in my book, that doesn’t excuse keeping something secret that if found out, would greatly hurt the other person and change what that person thinks the whole relationship is all about. Basically, you seem to be saying that an affair (including platonic ones) are no prob, as long as the other person doesn’t find out. I call self-serving bs.


Huffing Boing Boing
#102

Wow. Surprised to see so much response.

Yes, I did hide it from my wife, but only very briefly until I could arrange meetings. I invited the girl over, then the 3 of us went out, then she invited us over. So my wife got to meet her and on multiple occasions see how we interact (pretty much like brother and sister). And in the end it was fine.

Why did I hide it initially? Because my wife came with baggage from ex’s who cheated on her. She was quick to make wrong assumptions, leap to bad conclusions, and get upset. I didn’t want her to feel hurt or get the wrong idea and get upset for no reason. And that did happen, exactly as I expected it might, but we got through it ok. We talked to each other.


#103

Thank you, jsroberts, a very good reply.

‘something else’ - a legitimate concern. Male-female relationships do sometimes shift.

Could be, but my wife has full access to all my money, and spends a lot more than me, even accounting for this. :wink:

Truth. But everyone needs their own space/privacy. And we need to learn to respect that and trust each other. It’s especially important to respect and trust one’s spouse.

Actually, she knows and understands. She’d probably rather I didn’t, but she supports my attempts to help.

Sometimes, yes. It depends on the issue. Some things, I’d much rather discuss with my wife. But not all. Some need a different viewpoint. To put it in perspective, I never recorded my sessions with my therapist to play them back for my wife. Is that wrong?

Luckily, that’s not an issue. My wife knows.


#104

I see a lot of gender-based hostility here, that I don’t think will do any good, but suit yourself.


#105

Thanks for your response! To be clear, I was talking about potential issues that could be problematic in this kind of scenario, rather than assuming that these were necessarily true in your case. Sorry to make you the subject of so much discussion, and I’m glad to hear you were able to sort things out with your wife in the end!

Some things, I’d much rather discuss with my wife. But not all. Some need a different viewpoint. To put it in perspective, I never recorded my sessions with my therapist to play them back for my wife. Is that wrong?

Not at all. A number of times I’ve found that there are some issues that I haven’t properly dealt with in my own mind, and unloading them on my wife in that state can be unhelpful. It’s that I don’t respect her opinion or that I never want her to know, but sometimes she’s a bit close to the issue and I need an outsider’s perspective, or I’d just be putting too much pressure on her and should talk things through with someone else until I’m a little more clear-headed.


#106

It’s highly unlikely that I have talked to you or your friends. The few online places I might go to ask wouldn’t be populated by the types of women who are opposed to it, and it’s not a topic I am brave enough to broach among the mostly conservative (and married) women in my social circle.

My theory is just that, a theory. I’ve often wondered what makes (what seems like most) women feel they should oppose prostitution, and that’s one reason they might have for doing so. Just saying “it’s wrong to sell it” does not satisfy me as a reason to oppose it. Something has to -make- it wrong when done within a purely economic context, and that’s what I’m curious about.

Note that I don’t think a woman freely choosing to have sex for money is being exploited, and I think women who do make the choice should be afforded as much protection from harm as any other person would be as they go about their work. They do not have a criminal motive, their work does no great demonstrable harm (that’s been shown to me at least), and so I think should be allowed to do their work in peace.


#107

You didn’t read the entire thread, did you? She’s referring back to justifications certain man trolls keep making.


#108

Worse than dogs? Cats?


#109


#110

Just watched Beyond the Candlelabra last night and it is a great look at this kind of transnational relationship with a lot of nuance plus some Good Lord the over the top Liberace crazy world. A fun watch and it will make you think about how these two were able to connect because it was such a clear “purchase.” Some people need that distance and control to be in a relationship, and each had their own control that was clear because they’d established early on that their relationship was a purchase and not really a “real” relationship. That gave them the freedom to let their walls down because it reduced the risk of emotional damage and appearance of control.


#111

Have you read about Scott Thorson’s life? The Liberace part seems to have been the sane, stable bit.


#112

No but I really want to now. They made him seem moderately normal in the movie but seriously to do all that you’d have to be so lost…

What was so fun was just how Liberace had the most gay lifestyle ever and yet he still had audiences who bought that he was not gay. It was just a hoot. I mean, yeah, you knew, everyone knew, but when you see how he really lived it was like, “wow, some people really like to stick their heads down deep in the sand.”


#113

Yeah, no, sorry I cannot agree that keeping an entire relationship, even if it is platonic, but that involves money, secret from ones spouse is an acceptable secret to keep. Thats not a little white lie, thats a giant elephant in the room.


#114

I have no idea who you’re arguing with here. I am obviously not one of these fictional women you think are opposed to sex work.

Your theory is sexist and unfounded, and you should revise the premise and maybe examine why you want women to be opposed to sex work.


#115

Agreed. At least it seems like in the situation in question, it wasn’t kept secret for long.

Little white lies, ok, those can be manageable in a healthy relationship, maybe. But something giant like that? No way.