Oi veh.
It was one of the main justifications for the Holocaust. You know, when many of the Jews of Europe were murdered en masse. Does that come up much, outside of the US?
9 Likes
I still think that’s misdirection, whether intentional or not. See @Brainspore’s post above yours. He has a history of using the dual-loyalty antisemitic trope. When you say it’s not that, it’s something else, I think you’re either naive or wrong.
10 Likes
We didn’t cover Hitler in my high school. No, I’m not kidding.
8 Likes
I approve of this characterization as a kike/wop hybrid. But of course, I’m not very PC at times, even as a raging progressive.
Stating that American Jews owe loyalty to another sovereign nation is another way of saying Jewish people can’t have undivided loyalty to the United States.
So yes, it really is the same thing.
16 Likes
Huh? I didn’t say he wasn’t implying dual-loyalty, I said he was implying dual loyalty. What I said was, it wasn’t disloyalty to the USA that Trump was accusing Jews of, it was disloyalty to Israel (thus, implying that American Jews should be loyal to Israel, thus implying dual loyalty). I guess I need to connect the dots better around here. And as someone else pointed out, Trump seems uniquely able to accuse Democrats of anti-semitism for implying dual loyalty, while doing exactly the same thing himself.
It really isn’t. Dual loyalty implies loyalty to the USA AND Israel. If you are disloyal to the USA, and loyal to Israel, that isn’t dual loyalty, that’s single loyalty. Dual loyalty is not having undivided loyalty, sure, but that’s not the same as disloyalty. Accusations of disloyalty are McCarthyism. Dual loyalty is anti-semitic. Anyway, it seems kinda pointless to be beating this dead horse, since it seems to be based on you misunderstanding what I said in the first place
it was always about getting rid of “politically correct” people, and anyone who stood in the way of land development, religion in school, racial and sex discrimination and all that.
honestly, it was never about corruption. even at the time, he said it all pretty plainly.
11 Likes
Very unclear.
6 Likes
I thought there was some light and shade between the headline and the actuacal headline as it seemed so extreme. But no, it is open, up front anti-semitism. I keep thinking I can’t be shocked but I just really wonder what I’m going to see in my life time, I thought the insanity of fascism was behind us, but here it is, mainstream.
13 Likes
I don’t know - during his campaign, he talked about politicians getting rich off their positions*, with at least the implication this is what he meant by “drain the swamp” (or at least, relied on that being the usual meaning); it wasn’t until he was actually in power that it suddenly became really vague and turned into this thing about driving out the disloyal wrong-thinkers.
*Like many of the things he said, it was pure projection, describing what he’d do in that situation. Like many of the things he said during his campaign, it was also the opposite of what he actually did. That his followers just went along with it without any sign of cognitive dissonance makes me realize how unaware they are.
8 Likes
Not at all what I wrote. I had a thorough education on the Holocaust, with many of the hate tropes explored. This one trope might have been phrased under a different name or handled when I was sick for a day. I have no idea. It’s been more than 20 years.
I’m not sorry for asking, but please don’t treat people who honestly wanted to know more about this as shitty as you’re currently doing. There’s no need to direct your Trump outrage at me.
Again, Holocaust… many hours in history class, disloyalty trope? I missed it or they skipped it / it was covered under a different name.
6 Likes
The Holocaust does, the specific details of Hitler’s rhetoric not so much. I didn’t take history as a specialised subject in my secondary school education, which means I only got the very basic mandatory curriculum on it, and though we did of course cover the second world war and the holocaust as a part of that, I don’t recall there being a great deal of time put into why Hitler was killing Jewish people. Or any mention at all of the fact that he also massacred queer people, for that matter.
From what I remember, our lessons were more focused on how it affected Britain, because of course that’s what’s important. /s
7 Likes
@Rice What he said!
This. And it is an insidious thing, which is deeply set. The assumption that a person identifying as Jewish is somehow compromised, partly foreign.
That’s so pervasive that it even creeps into the vocabulary of people who absolutely know better and earnestly talk about antisemitism as a problem.
I remember nearly throwing my book at our version of PBS, when a special about miscegenation laws in the 3rd Reich was being broadcast, with best intention of educating about its horrors.
And yet one of the moderators of the discussion afterwards earnestly spoke of “Marriages between Jews and Germans”. THEY BOTH WERE GERMAN YOU NIMWIT! It wasn’t the Jewish Germans who thought it was a swell idea it be treated like Non-Germans.
Same applies in this case.
14 Likes
Hitler had more than loyalty issues with the Jewish people in and outside of his rhetoric, which is what I learned about in school. Somehow you’re making that loyalty the pinnacle of western education. Fine, if it helps you feel superior that I didn’t know. But that’s not even the part I asked about. I wanted to know why it was considered a slur and got answers from other helpful people.
3 Likes
Bad education isn’t just a US thing.
In my school, ancient and modern history were two elective subjects; not compulsory. I opted for both, but ended up getting rapidly kicked out of the modern history class (because the teacher was a right-wing douche who wouldn’t tolerate anyone questioning his perspective).
So, the only history I got in high school was purely focused on ancient Greece and Rome. Everything outside of that I had to find for myself.
Fortunately, I stumbled across Art Spiegelman and Primo Levi in my late teens. Which helped, but still left me with a heavily Eurocentric perspective for quite a long time.
11 Likes
I agree. I just think at this point we are dealing with the modern day equivalents of Chaim Rumkowski, ready to put other people in the camps while they profit. They never think it will be them put in there.
11 Likes
