I think you are an idiot.
I dismiss your point of view because I think you are an idiot.
Nice. Much convincing.
Is that how you’re going to talk to your daughters if and when they too figure out how the world actually works?
I think you are an idiot.
I dismiss your point of view because I think you are an idiot.
I think that you are an idiot because of the way that you express yourself.
That’s the way the world actually works.
I think @Tom is getting into the poetry aspects of this.
Still being behaving like a proper arsehole though Tom
The world according to Tom.
Sounds like a terrifying place…
Speak “wrong” and you’re an idiot. Don’t accept direct advice from a male coworker on how you should be speaking and you’re an idiot. Try to address systematic sexism and the limitations of patriarchy on both men and women… idiot.
Must be hard to live in a world with so many idiots!
And not because of what I actually say?
Oh right, you’re the one who’s given up going around giving unsolicited advice about how people can better “express” themselves, by talking more “properly.” Dang fools just won’t change how they talk, what is the matter with them??
The way you think that your way of expressing yourself as a (presumably middle-class white) man is the one proper way of doing so isn’t familiar at all. Nope, I never, ever encounter such expectations that I act like someone other than who I am. Except like, almost every damn day.
Lord how I worry for your daughters.
them them them!
You mean like that old white guy T S Eliot who complained about the negativism of old men and said they should get out more (paraphrasing Four Quartets)?
I am one of them, he was right and from my observation over the years she has a point.
Wow, almost 200 comments. When I first listened to the poem, there were none. My thoughts as an older white guy for what they are worth:
The woman’s performance is just awesome. I felt what what she felt, which I think is the point. So from that standpoint, the work is a success. The words I thought were beautifully constructed from the things people apparently object to, and served a great point. I’ve read about vocal fry, noticed it, and mainly wondered if long term use of it did any damage to the vocal cords. I know a guy my age who has done this since I first met him (~1980). I always suspected it was to lower his vocal tone (he seemed pretty insecure). I wondered then what the long term effects were. Haven’t seen him in decades though. Thus I can see why people might do it purposefully (rather than just imitating their peers): to have more impact? But I never thought or said “You shouldn’t do that!” because of cultural reasons. I think it just increases the variety of people’s voices which is always interesting. As for using “like” and “awesome” (Iike, like I did above) is just a newer set of slang words. Like “cool,” which was cool in the 1960’s and 70’s, died away for a decade or so, then came back. I wish “groovy” would come back, but then if not I feel cool using it.
My only complaint is young women who talk so fast I can’t keep up. But I recognize that as my problem, not theirs!
Meta-tastic!
TFTFY
It’s quite easy to ignore instances of dickishness if they aren’t directed at you. And that dickishness doesn’t necessarily have to take the form of direct interruption and correction. Her complaint emphasised that as a direct example that she could slam but she also hinted at having to construct her entire method of dia-logic and delivery with feints and soft touches, questions and the like so as not to appear too forceful and direct. Which obviously elicits another form of deleterious and corrective behaviour, more diffuse and porous than direct correction, that of the feint. Ignoring the speaker, rolling of the eyes, repeating what they’ve said without acknowledging the source, claiming ideas as their own when said source is wide eyed, afraid of rocking the boat a little too much by asking “Is there a fucking echo in here?” because that would be too forceful and not at all what the direct suggestions of conversation formulation being offered as unsolicited advice suggest to employ. The cure is the disease and it causes such dis-ease that rather than make the frightful mistake of pushing the male-centric crowd away further with such trivial annoyances as 'Respect my speech as much as yours, Dick!" people tend to try and find ways of couching their speech in patternation and formulation that doesn’t bring about this vaporous and underhand exploitation of what can be twisted into a perceived diffusion of cultural slights you don’t see. If you haven’t seen it bro, you’re fucking blind and deaf…
…to a subset of reality.
but you did wonder if they were “insecure” and “damaging” themselves, and maybe just ‘imitating’?
that’s like awesome. Keep on evolving, man.
I am sorry. You are clearly correct. It was a fundamental misunderstanding for me to relate this to easily understandable things that everyone (including me) goes through. When my parents and grandparents used to police my speech (and my mom in particular), I did not realize it was actually “patriarchy”. Thank you for the clarity and enlightenment. I will now retire from this conversation having been awed from your wisdom. Please don’t respond anymore to me, I am not sure I can handle your blazing torch of truth. I am truly sorry to have had a different opinion. Please, please forgive me.
(insert really hip gif here)
so, everyone but her shares your experience.
Oh do go on, I love a good mansplaining.
You’re finally getting it.
Brava.
that would be your parents, parenting.
What you are doing here is patronizing.
And if you had one whit of power, yes, likely it would be patriarchy if you behave like a parent to someone other than your child.
Fume on, or seize the learning opportunity?
TBF I also wonder how much of it, for young women in particular, is insecurity based.
Some interactions I’ve had with undergrads and vocal fry, when they’re so quiet I can’t understand them and I ask them to repeat themselves, the fry gets deeper. Part of me wonders if this isn’t the result of cultural programming telling young women need to be quiet/polite/nice/etc, and that high pitched voices are not taken seriously, the result is… vocal fry, a lower more deliberate tone of voice. Obviously #notallvocalfry - but for some… I do think its an outward expression of insecurity.
Which is funny, as for me, when I’m holding forth on a topic I feel I’m an expert on, I totally notice that I tend to fry. For me, I think its an unconscious leaning to being bombastic and taking on an air of authority. (Which… damn, I think only deep voices have “authority” apparently?) shit, I just bummed myself out…
Me too, some, but in my case I think I am Ira Glass.
