When I stated a few weeks ago something along the lines that I was in favor of people defending their civil liberties against undue state intrusion, that was certainly not what I had in mind.
This is basically the US president promoting an armed insurgency against the states’ epidemic containment. I’d love to say something hopeful like “well it can’t get any more crazy than that”, but we are beyond that, aren’t we.
This is a very good point. The fact that they were allowed to do this at the Governor’s Mansion here in MN is/was pretty much my breaking point. It makes me realize that if they can do that to him (or her - it’s the idea that it’s the Governor) they can do it to me.
To be crystal clear: these people aren’t actually concerned about overreaching government authority, because if they were then they would have been upset when Trump insisted he had unilateral authority to shut down states entirely (among other powers).
These people are upset that anyone other than their chosen cult leader is exercising their authority to contain the pandemic.
Well… what is it? Is it entirely along party lines? If so, why weren’t they arrested? Or is it all due to racism, as explained above? In which case, would they just go home if Trump tweeted they should? I think we shouldn’t get too one-dimensional here, and concede to these folks that they are multiple-faceted human beings, who can hold many things at once in their little hearts: racism, stupidity, AND an unhealthy fixation on their orange savior.
The Unholy Trinity.
Then again…
those people certainly are no Trump voters. I’m willing to concede that they are in a shit situation and have good reason to oppose their government.
Thus, maybe an effective criticism of the Michigan crowd would also entail working out the 1% of legitimate concerns from beneath their 99% of bullshit?
Just to keep those potentially legitimate arguments alive for those of us, who might want to use them later without perpetuating racism, endangerment, and NRA-type insurgency?
The “liberty” to get sick and/or infect other people…
SMGDH
Nah, no need.
If they have any legitimate concerns of value - which, frankly, I highly doubt - then clever and sane people already know about them or can derive them for themselves. There’s no value in giving these shitbags any oxygen, and any ideas you do take from them will be perpetually tainted with their stink.
Sometimes it’s just better to start from fresh.
What makes you say they have even 1% “legitimate concerns?” Their actions are 100% wrong. Doing something about that doesn’t harm the future hypothetical rights of everyone else. In fact, these shitheads are trampling on our rights right now.
Well… I’m not making this argument for their sake, but strictly for myself.
Being concerned for one’s livelihood or liberty, is, in and by itself, not offensive.
If those people were able to protest in a civil manner, without arms, without racism, and while keeping reasonable distance from others - which they clearly are not - I wouldn’t say a word against them.
It’s a moot point as far as they are concerned, but it is important to me, because at some point, I’d like to have my life back, and might even want to publicly express that in a non-endangering and orderly fashion, without risking to be lumped in with the likes of them.
If someone serves me a plate full of shit I’m not going to bother poking through it to find out if 1 out of every 100 turds is actually delicious chocolate.
Ok, that one I can’t argue with 
Once more, I’m worried that my point of view doesn’t really translate as well as I would like it to across the Atlantic, because over here, the pandemic is slowly, but steadily on the downturn, and some measures have been lifted during the last weeks, without adverse effect so far… so I’m maybe more in a mood to talk about lifting measures, that might seem inappropriate when viewed from your situation.
I’m not opposed to good-faith discussions about when and how to start easing back on social distancing measures. I just don’t believe this particular crowd has anything useful to add to that discussion.
a.k.a., the original sense of the Curate’s egg.
Right Reverend Host: “I’m afraid you’ve got a bad Egg, Mr Jones!”
The Curate: “Oh no, my Lord, I assure you! Parts of it are excellent!”
I won’t dive deeply into it because it threatens to swerve badly off topic, but this is one of the logical fallacies of free speech extremism. Either agree with them and their tactics or don’t. Waffling about it and finger wagging “what-ifs” just enable bad actors to act badly.
If you protest reasonably, as you’ve outlined, you’re not going to draw the ire here that these “protesters” have. If you use their tactics that are reprehensible, as you’ve outlined, I’m going to call you an asshole even if I agree 100% about your message.
They’re a bunch of ignorant and spoiled yokels who are denying the science and exacerbating to a public health crisis. Weapons or not, I have no more time for them than I do for creationists or climate change deniers or Identitarians or other fantasists (lots of Venn diagram overlap, I’m sure). But because these thugs did storm a liberal democratic institution with rifles they should all be arrested as terrorists. However, they’re white males, so they’re going to get yet another free pass from both the authorities and from chin- and neckbeard-stroking Internet concern tr0lls (who also happen to be privileged white males).
Either agree with them and their tactics or don’t.
Sorry but that’s just not how my brain works. It’s possible to be an asshole in message, or an asshole in methods, or both, but even for a total asshole it’s possible to unwittingly stumble onto a legitimate question - in this case, the question “what’s supposed to happen with our livelihoods” - that should then be defended not for them, but against them.
Are you seriously accusing me of defending or promoting terrorism out of a racist motivation? Get off your high horse, will you? Not everybody who sees the world in a maybe somewhat convoluted way is against you, and not everybody who wonders what motivates right wing nut jobs is one of them.
No. After some prodding by others, you made it clear you don’t believe that the form of their protest is defensible. The content of their protest, on the other hand…
