White House insiders: Trump ordered Sean Spicer to lie about crowd sizes because he was "demoralized"

Some people are very vulnerable to bullying and control, and I think it’s possible to rise to a position of prominence specifically because of that vulnerability. If you make a really great stooge - willing to lie, embarrass yourself, etc. in service of your boss - Trump is going to want you on his team.

I can have some sympathy, and I can imagine that Spicer himself might not see he has a way out of this situation, but I can’t liken it to a situation where someone is actually being brutalized, where someone is being cut off from their friends and family, or a situation where the abuser is a co-parent and you are locked in an internal debate about what’s best for your children.

Someone who tells a domestic abuse victim they need to just leave and blames them for their situation has a huge lack of empathy. I don’t think I lack empathy for Spicer, I just think he has to own the results of his actions. He was the one who got up vehemently, flagrantly lied to the American public. Whatever the reason he thought that was worth it, he’s 100% accountable for doing it, and I’m pretty unimpressed with him as a result. I guess I’m likening him to an addict more than an abuse victim?

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I don’t know what you’re talking about. The president might be awful, but the story sets a great precedent.

Imagine if the story of “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” had instead gone like this:

A mean little boy, let’s call him Georgem dearly wanted a puppy, but didn’t get one. But the neighbor’s boy, little Saddam, got a cute little puppy for Christmas. The puppy grew and became a big, friendly dog. Little Saddam was happy (even though he was still really nasty towards his little sister).
But little George was envious. So he came up with a plan. One day, when Little Saddam was out walking his cute and harmless dog, little George pointed at the dog, and loudly cried “WOLF!”.
Everyone believed him (except the neighbors across the street, Jacques and Joschka and a few others, but they couldn’t do anything). So, George’s brother Dick got out his shotgun, and with most of the neighborhood cheering him on, went over to Saddam’s house and shot the Big Bad Wolf, who was actually a cute and harmless dog. (And while he was at it, he shot Saddam for being mean to his sister. The sister somehow got hurt too, and her house burnt down. But that’s a different story).

I much prefer the version of the story where little George had cried Wolf so often that no one believed him any more, and the poor dog got to live, and Saddam’s house didn’t burn down.

It’s only a matter of time until little Donnie cries WOLF and points at little Hassan’s adorably cute poodle. I definitely want NO ONE to believe him when the time comes.

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See also: Melania.

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I wasn’t aware. Objection noted.

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At this point I’d warm to the idea of President Lex Luthor. At least he tends to focus his rage on one particular illegal alien instead of all this “wall” nonsense.

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Also, lets remember that gaslighting is one of the most time-honored strategies to assert dominance in a domestic relationship:

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Good point. We should refer to people who do Trump’s bidding in front of reporters as “Trump Gaslighters” rather than “Trump Spokespersons”.

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Because it’s outdated, or because it’s wrong to say that?

I’m American, and I think I would rather have Pence. Yes, he’s a mean, shitty person. But he’s not a mean, shitty, delusional, vindictive, narcissistic, predatory person.

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Not a fan of Californian coastal types, IIRC, though.

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I agree. I think there are these shades of gray situation where it’s one part: sorry, you have to learn this lesson but this guy is not to be trusted and part You are a grown up; you have choices, you have to be responsible for your actions.

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say that three times fast. Win a prize. Cake perhaps.

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Seems the bard got it wrong. They seem to have a pretty easy time lying

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Did he mean demoralized, or without morals?

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At the end of the story the sheep get eaten. We’re the sheep.

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Wait, somebody got the presidency that has a thin skin and not the best grasp of reality or what people actually think of him?

I did not expect this outcome.

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They attempted to de-moralize him but found it impossible?

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And in your story, who is the wolf?

Because so far, I only see innocent dogs who are in danger of getting shot because some American president cries wolf.

Or are you seriously more afraid of Iran than of Trump?

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Because it is sexist? (I don’t know the origin of the phrase though.)

The original phrase is either “tough titties said the kitties, but the milk was good” or “tough titties said the kitties when the milk ran dry”, depending on how it’s used.

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