Alternatives to "Resting Bitch Face"

I’m pretty sure his context is

money > emotional turmoil

Just being a white male doesn’t mean your life is on easy mode. If you don’t know where your next meal is coming from, how you are going to pay your rent/mortgage at the end of the month, be able to maintain a job if your car breaks down because you live paycheck to paycheck, ect… all of those trump the discomfort you might (or will) incur if you were a female minority. Sure you can lump it all the way down and say the suckiest life mode is poor female minority, but I think he was explicitly comparing poor to not poor, which from his perspective represents a greater obstacle in his life than he can perceive from being a woman.

Women don’t understand what it’s like to be a man, just like men don’t understand what it’s like being a woman. There are pros and cons on both sides, and some of the cons are imposed by society and are things we all should work toward fixing, but deriding someone (talking to the forum in general here) when they present themselves as a white male sure as hell isn’t helping.

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I think what is absolute crap is that any time there is a complaint about sexism and men’s expectations of women, it takes 5 posts or less for some man to try to turn it into a discussion about something else.

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It’s not a “face”, it’s The Comms Array!

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I honestly thought that was precisely what you have been telling me this morning.

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I’m white and male. I skimmed some, but didn’t see people deriding anyone specifically for being white and male, may have just missed it though. I don’t disagree that males have their own unique set of crappy things to deal with. I can’t know, but it seems like the worst I suffer in day to day life isn’t as bad as getting dick pics sent to me when I play Scrabble online(!), and I’m sure it’s not as bad as getting stop-and-frisked/pulled over for driving while black. Also let’s maybe listen to what problems women face to find out what’s really going on on that side, instead of changing the topic every time it comes up to “yeah, whatever, but it really sucks to be [a guy|disabled|poor|other].”

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Yes, frequently. I said above that the only way to understand the undertakings of another social group would be to become part of that group – you can’t look through a window at others and expect to understand the minutia of systemic oppression inherent in the system we’ve all inherited. There is no academic equivalent to oppression based on things you can’t change nor choose.

I started worrying about this when I first moved to the States as a kid and was immediately beaten up for being gay (I was actually French) then when I lost my French and picked up English again, but with my family English accent, I learned what a Limey was. So I lost that accent – I betrayed who I was in order to blend.

It was really at 14 and through my second serious girlfriend, who was a Native American, that I learned some hard truths. That this happens to people who can’t “blend in” or “change who they are”, that people who you thought you knew were actually racists and that racially blended couples weren’t popular. That really began my journey to try and approach the world with empathy first. I learned about the bravery of not betraying who you are from some kid whose name escapes me – the little brother of a girl I was friends with - in high school. He came out, in the late 80’s – one of the bravest people I’ve ever met.

I’ve said some stupid shit along the way too. In college, a girl I was seeing was half-caucasian and half-latino. I jokingly referred to her as my “favorite little half-bean”. Thanksgiving dinner with her father’s side of the family was another learning experience – not when she brought up the half-bean, everyone thought that was hilarious, but when it came up that I wasn’t a citizen and I mentioned that “green cards aren’t actually green, they’re pink” - I could tell by the looks on her fathers and uncles faces that I’d just said something really stoopid so I added “most American’s don’t know that…” and I saw it dawn on them that this gringo wasn’t being intentionally nor unintentionally racist, he’s just stoopid – and when he says “American” he actually does mean us and he doesn’t think of us as Mexican first, but as generically American. It was a bumpy start, but we got along famously.

There are plenty more examples – trying to explain to my rich white friends why everyone these days seems to hate “rich old white men”, trying to explain why gay rights needs to be a thing, how havig a parade to celebrate it isn’t degrading heterosexuals because every day is hetero day or, in one of my more foolish times thinking that “the only thing I won’t tolerate is intolerance” was an enlightened PoV.

Bottom line is, I’m still learning, I’m still screwing up, and when I said that seeing this “RBF” defined in the WaPo - of all things - along with them suggesting that the cure is, apparently, “a wee smile all the time, or being a boy or being an unattractive woman” was the type of idiotic thinking that would ruin my day…

…and it has.

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I’ve been reading and posting in the forums (in whatever variety they have been) for more than a decade, and at one point way back when you could have a reasonable logical discussion even when people brought up race, equality, or just about any topic. Now,…now that doesn’t happen. It’s either toe the line of the group think or be mocked with image macros. Sure sometimes asshole shill accounts show up and deserve it but it happens a lot when topics of race and privilege come up.

I’m happy to listen to anyone if they are willing to communicate in a clear logical reasonable way. If I want macro spamming I’ll just head to 4Chan where I know the quality of post is shit tier to begin with.

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Interesting. Why do you suppose that is, when I never said it?

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False equivalence is false (since we live in a patriarchy).

Most women know much better what it’s like to be a man than men know what it’s like to be a woman. They just do. And that’s because women are often made aware that they are women, by men who act “above” them, or fget favored over them, or try to control them, or fail to listen to them, and for so many other such reasons.

Men, OTOH, don’t normally have such things, such problems, making them aware that they are men, and are being treated accordingly.

Most men are blithely unaware of their invisible knapsack full of privileges, while women wear privilege-pack specs.

Why is it so common in these cases that deriding what someone says gets transmogrified into deriding them for who and what they are?

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Yeah. They all seem to start bending the same way no matter how they start off. Wonder why that happens.

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I think that’s how neutral expressions tend to go, though - the corners of the mouth tend to droop. Nobody (or as good as) has a neutral expression that looks like a smile (without some plastic surgery), but that seems to be required to have a non-RBF.

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(To elaborate: I do care about poor white folks, but there’s really no need to bring them up right now)

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Logical argument and animated gifs are not mutually exclusive. In the current thread, those posting animated gifs have also provided arguments for their positions.

Is it your position that anyone posting animated gifs should just have their actual arguments ignored? Or do you think their actual arguments are incorrect?

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Meredith Brooks: Bitch (and does not feel ashamed).

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Says the commenter who then went on to dismiss an entire thread that he’s participating in with an “image macro.”

I’m happy to listen to anyone if they are willing to communicate in a clear logical reasonable way. If I want macro spamming I’ll just head to 4Chan where I know the quality of post is shit tier to begin with.

Images and gifs are just another form of communication, often a faster and/or more expressive one than mere typed-out words. Why are you such an old-fashioned proponent of mere typed-out words?

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I haven’t seen much in the way of rational discussion. I don’t think their opinions are incorrect exactly, but I think they are being expressed in a very binary way of my opinion is right and yours is wrong for arbitrary reasons.

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This notion of yours and @Medievalist’s that people are being “derided for being men” is just not tenable. In almost every case, what has actually happened is that:

  1. A man has stated an opinion about something that mainly concerns women
  2. Women point out that, as this man lacks any direct contact with the thing, that his opinion is perhaps not very well-informed and that he might benefit from listening to women’s perspective on the subject
  3. Man gets defensive and claims that he is being derided for being a man

Or sub race for gender, etc. etc.

Yes, this is tiresome, but it seems tiresome to me because it seems like some people are going out of their way to misinterpret the arguments of others in just such a way as to take offense. Which is a little ironic since it’s supposed to be the SJWs going out of their way to take offense; it seems to me that in an awful lot of cases, men go out of their way to get offended by male privilege arguments.

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Probably because they actually communicate understanding and promote rational discussion. You know versus the “slow clap” and “eye roll” that just come off as I think you aren’t worth a reasonable reply.

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There is a group think that emerges, though I don’t agree on what it is. Virtually every time there’s some topic related to feminism/women’s experiences/etc. that comes up it quickly shifts into a pile-on of dismissing the topic in favor of talking about white-male problems and defending the honor of white males from slights against white males (slights that usually weren’t made). I understand why that gets dismissed with gifs/etc., though.

I think there are often interesting side-discussions that could be had, I’d just way prefer it if they didn’t railroad the original discussion, but were split into their own topics.

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