Cruz soundly beats Trump in Iowa; Hillary edges past Bernie

[blaeceorcanstan]

Or Indhira Gandhi in India.

[CarlMud]

With the data access issue, Sanders acknowledged the issue and fired the guy immediately. But he was also accurate in pointing out that the tech guy was recommended by the DNC. He was an outsider to the campaign who only worked on the data mining. That seems important to point out rather than accept full responsibility and basically confess to something his campaign didn’t do, but rather what an individual did. And the DNC and DWS seemed all too eager to pounce on the Sanders campaign rather than placing the blame for the breach on the software vendor that had experienced this kind of issue before.

I think honesty is irrelevant. No leader of any organization can control every element within that organization unless they’re some kind of totalitarian dictator with 24/7 surveillance on all personnel and assets. No amount of strong rules or a culture of honesty will prevent someone from doing something wrong that causes a scandal. That’s just human nature. And compared to Hillary’s flip-flopping on important issues and supporting the war and being financed by the 1%, I’d say the worst scandal on the Sanders side is forgivable and forgettable.

[anon61221983]

Ugh… Breitbart…

[CarlMud]

@gracchus

I think Wasserman-Schultz’s DNC would give Sanders far less party support in the general election than it would to Clinton, even to the point of swallowing a loss to “show” the Dem rank and file that a progressive is “unelectable” in the U.S.

Were that to happen and the progressives were to blame the DNC for it, it would cause a Tea Party like rift in the party. They don’t want a split that further reduces the Democratic voter base. That would be political suicide.

[fnordius]

@Ryuthrowsstuff

Hillary is a career politician that seldom risked much, or accomplished anything major. She’s a center left political animal that mainly focused on working the system to eek things through.

Well, looking back to when she first attempted health care and the how fiercely the Republicans fought it and killed it, and then pursued her and Bill so relentlessly that it was frankly embarrassing to admit you were American, is it any wonder that she has become the sort of tactician who knows how to eke things through? Republicans hate her with a passion so hot it may play a role in global warming, cooking her reputation despite the many firewalls.

She does get generally good marks over her tenure as Secretary of State as well, leaving only Benghazi for the Republicans to gin up. And even there, there is nothing that points to anything other than competence on her part. Even the email server looks worlds better than any of her predecessors’ setups, and they still can’t prove she leaked anything.

If anything, I love how she pisses Republicans off.

[fnordius]

@Ryuthrowsstuff

Beyond that, she didn’t think it was going to be a landslide, unless she was ignoring the polls up to this point. So to posit that her (maybe I just really dislike this phrase) “arrogant sense of entitlement” took a hit is, 1) unverifiable opinion, 2) unlikely, given the readily-available information leading up to, and beyond, the Iowa event.

I would like to add that in 2008, she lost to Obama in Iowa, so winning it feels more like breaking a curse. Lifting of a burden. Less fnords to look out for. NH is home ground for Bernie, so it’s his to lose, and then we will really start to see who my fellow Dems prefer.

[gracchus]

I thought burying the Democratic debates was beyond the DNC, too, but here we are. The Dem establishment is heavily invested in Third Way ideology and the Wall Street money it brings in, and I don’t think it’s so ludicrous that Clinton and Wasserman-Schultz and the rest of them would want to keep it that way. Some of them really believe that moving the party back toward the left would put them at a disadvantage, despite mounting evidence to the contrary.

[gracchus]

You’d think so, but they’re already alienating progressives with stunts like burying the debates and other favoritism. I hope they’re smarter than that, but they’ve been drinking the Third Way Kool Aid for a generation now. It does strange things to one’s priorities. Look at how things are playing out with the Labour Party’s Blairite establishment and Corbyn in the UK.

[Ryuthrowsstuff]

Frankly my issue is that it reminds me of Hillary. But without the tact, control or talent for spin. I dislike those sort of tactics in general. But the Sanders campaign’a responses are just weird. Deny it happened that way, deny it was unethical, make not so oblique reference to conspiracy. Does anyone really believe the DNC refered a guy so he could deliberately embarass the campaign? Or that just because he came from outside, the campaign couldn’t (or shouldn’t have and didn’t) subject him to oversite, control or accountability? Really? Either they’re putting us on or they legitimately don’t have control of their people. In either class it’s clear they don’t see that it could be a problem. Or understand how to handle it when this stuff crops up.

[Ryuthrowsstuff]

My money’s on her losing NH, though given how Iowa turned out it’ll be closer than expected. Or Bernie will be much further ahead. Whichever, I think polling might be off after Iowa. So that will hold for the next few. Which is fine. A tough 2 candidate primary is good for whoever comes out. Provided they maintain that unified front on economic equality, and it doesn’t get to nasty.

think of it this way. A Hillary now makes it more possible to ellect a Bernie later. And that future Bernie has a better chance of making his promises happen. A Bernie now means we probably end up with a Hillary anyway. And long-term prospects for Bernies yet to come look dimmer.

[CarlMud]

It sounds like you dislike Bernie Sanders because he isn’t a mainstream establishment candidate, but that’s exactly why he’s so appealing to many other people. He doesn’t have a smooth-talking spin machine working for him. Minor blundering through a campaign is a mark of honesty. If his campaign had a perfect answer for everything, it’d be a trip through the uncanny valley and come off as being dishonest and artificial.

[anon26940528]

@beschizza

nativist inflatable Cheeto

Instant band name.

[enso]

@Ryuthrowsstuff

She’s a center left

Citation needed. She’s Center Right, just like Obama.

[enso]

@Ryuthrowsstuff

But frankly I’m getting sick of the Bernie side of things. His supporters are talking like they won’t vote if he doesn’t take the nomination.

Oh, I’ll vote but not for Hilary. I refuse to vote for candidates that I don’t like on their own merits (as opposed to "We’re not the GOP!!!). I’ve held my nose and voted for “Not the GOP” in too many elections in my life to keep doing it.

[Ryuthrowsstuff]

I like and dislike both in equal measure. Agree and disagree with both in equal and equivalent measure. I’d be happy with either as president, and I’m sure either would do a good job. More over I think there’s more than a little chance either’s administration would look identical.

Being an outsider isn’t neccisarily a good thing. And being establishment isn’t always a bad thing. Neither of these people excite me . Given the situation I figure the establishment, insider party hack is the more practical choice. And the better hope for an eventually successfully progressive presidency.

Other that Berniecs crowd, and his methods for engaging them, makes me suspicious. A lot of it is a little fringy. And he’s deliberately flirting with that element. His “movement” is starting too look more Nader than Obama.

[enso]

@Ryuthrowsstuff

I like and dislike both in equal measure. Agree and disagree with both in equal and equivalent measure. I’d be happy with either as president,

So you’re happy with:

1. Middle East Wars
2. Drone Strikes on “terrorists” (and anyone nearby) based on metadata by executive decision
3. Assassination of US citizens without trial through drones by executive decision
4. Warrantless wiretapping of all Americans by the NSA

All policies with Clinton support.

[daneel]

Vote Rand!

[enso]

I’m full up on crazy.

[CarlMud]

When the mainstream is corrupt and complacent, fringy starts to look refreshing. To be willing to accept Hillary without a fight means you have to be willing to accept more of the same lack of action to deal with the corruption. Anything fringy about Sanders will get burned off if he gets elected since he won’t be able to get anything too progressive through a Republican Congress. I’d rather vote for a candidate that aims for the stars and maybe hits the treetops instead of a candidate that seems all too willing to compromise to stay in the mud.

[CarlMud]