Yeah Ted Nugent has been a right wing dickhead since at least the 90s and I question anything he did in the 70s and 80s that was remotely “shocking” vs just faked for attention. Folks from where I grew up in central Michigan (he has land and supposedly hunts there) also largely viewed him as a phony and a hack when he talked about being a hunter, etc. so it fits.
The other two, though… ESPECIALLY Dee Snider… shame on you catering to a certain demographic and the things you became famous fighting FOR. I’m even inclined to believe KISS was doing a bit of stage show separated from their reality but Dee Snider either is saying he was a phony all along or he’s become like every other Boomer asshole that watches Fox News.
I don’t know anything at all about orbital physics and somehow I find it really easy to avoid making public statements about satellite engineering.
Paul and Dee have 40+ years’ experience marketing stale ass-sweat as music; I’m sure we’d all be interested in hearing their insights. On everything else, they should educate themselves or shut up.
But just to clarify, KISS was not doing “feminine” (and by extension implied drag), which was the original claim. As in here:
All three of these guys are pioneers of the Trans movement. Who do you think made looking feminine onstage popular?
KISS was about looking scary, weird, spectacular, odd, outlandish. But “feminine?” No. And neither was Nugent. Long hair was a fashion, a “freak flag.” It may have been derided as “feminine” by reactionaries, but that was as an insult. Long hair wasn’t a hippie fashion meant to evoke femininity. It was a sign of rebellion.
Trying to claim that what they were doing was meant to evoke femininity, or was meant to be some kind of drag, or was meant to imply (explicitly or implicitly) support for what we now call LGBTQIA+ is so far beyond reasonable as to arouse suspicion as to someone’s intent.
Hey, old-ass rockers. If you’re on the same side as Ted Nugent regarding… pretty much anything you need to re-evaluate pretty much everything about your life.
Supporting the discrimination and violence against a group is being a “Purist”?
Especially when there are organized and concerted attacks on them under color of law?
Besides, they were simply copycatting what Bowie and the New York Dolls (and quite a few others late 60s early 70s) had already been doing. They are about as original and authentic as Mötley Crüe (did I get all the umlauts right?).
Quite disappointed in Dee Snider on this one. He has always seemed like one of the good ones who was well informed (cue someone posting some heinous podcast interview that rearranges my perception of him).
I’d agree, and also quibble a bit. Bowie was pretty consciously bending gender norms, and was quite consciously fluid. In interviews at the time he highlighted his own fluidity, and was using it as a critique of all kinds of gendered BS. “Not sure if you’re a guy or a girl” wasn’t accidental.
I’d argue that KISS owed Bowie a lot, but it was a different thing. The built on the road he paved, maybe? In Far Out magazine in 1996, Gene Simmons was pretty specific that they weren’t doing feminine. (Emphasis mine.)
“At the same time that we were forming in New York, there was a very big glitter scene, where boys were basically acting like girls and putting on makeup,” Simmons told the fanzine Porkchops & Applesauce in 1996. “Y’know, all the skinny little guys, hairless boys. Well, we were more like football players; all of us were over 6 feet tall, and it just wasn’t convincing! The very first pictures we took when the band first got together, we looked like drag queens. But we knew we wanted to get outlandish.”
The way that statement is structured, it’s clear that drag wasn’t their thing, and that what they were shooting for was simply “outlandish,” as well as a way to stand apart from The Ramones. In a “masculine” way.
[And I absolutely am not meaning to 'splain what you and others here know (which statement probably means I have). But the origins of this thread evoke some real problems with people trying to re-write history, and to condone and make excuses for horrible people. So I wanted to be more elaborate in my reply.]
FWIW, and I realize it’s not much, it’s one of those threads I check into occasionally and read up on, but don’t feel I have much more than commiseration to add, so don’t comment. I have a feeling I’m not unique in this here at BBS and am proud(? not sure that’s the right word here) that so many openly trans people feel they’ll be given a safe venue to educate and share their stories. I feel that I’ve learned more here about the ongoing and present issues than anywhere else on the web thanks to you and others.
ETA: Topic’s in “slow mode” (like me!), so @anon33932455:
Yeah, I didn’t mean that they were specifically doing anything in support of LGBTQ+ community, just that there were earlier and, frankly more interesting/innovative instances than KISS and Twisted Sister.
And I don’t think anyone would give Nugent credit for anything even remotely groundbreaking or progressive.
These people aren’t bigoted uncles/aunts you are obligated to invite over for Thanksgiving and Christmas. They are celebrities. Nobody has to give them a wide berth because they are old and cranky. They aren’t mouthing off at a dinner table. They chose to vent bigoted opinions to the media for the world to see.
People who have the ear of the public have an obligation not to enable discrimination and violence against others, Period.
@cannibalpeas (can’t get the quote function to work)
I have a feeling I’m not unique in this here at BBS and am proud(? not sure that’s the right word here) that so many openly trans people feel they’ll be given a safe venue to educate and share their stories. I feel that I’ve learned more here about the ongoing and present issues than anywhere else on the web thanks to you and others.
“We have heard the concerns of the Avondale community, which is so important to us, and in conjunction with our partners, have taken the necessary steps to to cancel the Ted Nugent concert scheduled for July 18,” the venue said.
To which Nugent responded on Twitter…
liars & haters drunk on stupid incapable to debate me-
With the Paul Stanley statement there did seem to be a desire to put performers in make up, performers in drag, Drag performers and trans people into a continuum of related entities. Despite the fact they are unrelated. I have no idea why anyone would put Ted Nugent in that false continuum or why anyone would think Paul Stanley would have positive views.
Hey, let me make sure I’m not missing something here. Are you asking @Shuck to not refer to Dee Snider as an ally or did I miss an issue with the term QUILTBAG?
I’m glad that you’ve said this. Honestly, I’d never seen the term before. When I googled it, it popped up in a few different places, none of which had anything negative to say about it.
That being said (written) if someone here doesn’t like it, then I’m glad you spoke up, and I won’t use it. [not that I likely would have. It’s a bit silly-seeming]
Fair enough. I like the term for various reasons, but it’s by no means universal! (I think the only time I’ve really used it recently is for a League on DC Universe Online, but I wanted to make sure it hadn’t been claimed by some TERF group or something.)
I feel that I’ve learned more here about the ongoing and present issues than anywhere else on the web thanks to you and others.
