Invasion boards set out to ruin lives

I read what you originally wrote, and I get that you meant “if people have some kind of beef with Zoe Quinn then maybe that’s legit or maybe it isn’t” which is a very neutral statement that I don’t think anyone disagrees with. However, there’s a larger context and in which it comes across as inflammatory. I’m sure it sounds like I’m saying this topic is a word minefield, but suggesting there is any doubt as to whether Zoe Quinn used her sexual powers to gain unfair advantage is problematic in itself.

Like you say, it’s been discussed to death on these boards, so if you or anyone else doesn’t care for my addition to that then that’s fine. But the problem is that “not being on one side or the other” is being very firmly on one side. It’s like taking no position on whether evolution is real. It’s so settled that it is real that refusing to admit that it is real is giving credence to the idea that it isn’t. If I took no position on whether the sun was going to come up tomorrow, then that would be taking an extremely firm and rather drastic position. Gamergaters claim the Zoe Quinn slept with someone to get a review for her game but that person, in real life, simply did not review her game. Gjoni’s original post got the timing of the relationship wrong to try to make it look like something had happened that didn’t (whoops, right?).

Entirely besides all of that, framing the entire thing as “Zoe Quinn slept with Nathan Grayson to get a good review” rather than “Nathan Grayson is giving out favourable reviews for sexual favours” is also taking a side. That kind of behaviour, where one person with a public platform or a position of power leverages that to get sex, and blaming the person of lesser power who relents to that structure is obscene. In the absolute worst case, where a person intentionally seduces another person in an attempt to persuade them into doing something they wouldn’t otherwise do, with no coercion on the part of the “seducee”, it’s still absurd to focus attention on the seducer, who tried to convince someone to do something wrong, and not on the person who actually did the thing that was wrong for sex - as if they couldn’t possibly have made another decision.

The storyline of women taking advantage of helpless men who are powerless in their face of their sexual wiles is kind of a nonsense storyline. It presupposes that the man has a position of power (that’s why the woman wants him to do something for her) but then basically absolves him of responsibility because when offered sex for misdeeds a man simply can’t say no. It’s something that gamergaters seem to fully buy into.

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With “Social Justice Warriors” giving socialist a bad name, then I’m not surprised in the slightest.

Thinking the men aren’t responsible for their actions when a woman is mind controlling them with sex has nothing to do with being socially progressive or socially conservative unless social conservativism is inextricably linked with stupidity and misogyny. It’s just plain nonsense.

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I don’t think they believed Nathan is innocent.

One of the posters here, @MBD did analysis that showed that, if they didn’t think Nathan Grayson was innocent, they sure didn’t care much about him. Considering how close he was to the “scandal” that launched it all, a mere lack of death threats is pretty much a declaration of innocent from that group.

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Didn’t quite notice that.

Have we quantifiably disproven that, yet? Just asking.

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I agree with you.

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Other than using the militant warrior metaphor, who is against justice? And in what situation would you encounter justice outside of society?

We just had an SJW holiday this week.

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Even Erin Gonji said he was wrong on that account. People can believe that Bigfoot is responsible for bad game reviewers, but it doesn’t make it true. Shouting at the believers won’t change their minds, but it doesn’t make them right.

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psst: pesco-shaming is against the ToS.

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Yes, it was indeed @Humbabella that committed the final, lethal, hashing, back in Oct. 56 likes, killed gamergate sympathy with hot fire.

But, perhaps you have good reasons to spend another quarter on the fence.

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Well, that will never happen. Art gets discussed and criticized.

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Yeah, not sure how to feel about that. Shithead teaches shithead how to be a shithead.

Seriously, Weev ought to be locked up, Milo is a shithead, and Shanley is in a category all her own.

People don’t “get” how anyone can be against reasonable feminism. I don’t think I quite get how someone could be against the whole of feminism, either, considering that the average American is at least moderately feminist, but the opponents hold up people like Shanley when they go on a tear. Personally, I don’t think it’s at all fair to judge feminism by the actions of people like Shanley. Apparently, she an asshole; that has nothing to do feminism.

I’ll try one more time.

Y’know, if Zoe Quinn really did get unearned attention for Depression Quest for her game, that’s one thing; but the dogpile of shitheads doesn’t help a damn thing, and if anything completely takes any attention away from the original topic and legitimately makes Quinn a victim of harassment.

All I was say was that if–if–what Zoe Quinn was accused of doing was true, that would be one thing. If it’s false, that’s one thing. It was quite another thing to go on the word of one person and go all angry Internet horde. Because once they did that, whether they were right or wrong was largely irrelevant anymore, because a.) nobody wanted to discuss that anymore because b.) now she’s a victim of harassment. That’s not hyperbole, it’s absolute truth that some GamerGaters don’t seem to quite get; even if she did something wrong, she’s still a victim of the Internet horde.

Man, I hope that clears it up. I just didn’t want to discuss it, because the question…honestly, how can anyone the least bit familiar with GamerGate not suss it out? Was there a suspicion that I was talking about the angry Internet horde the whole time? If so, I genuinely apologize to OtherMichael for the misunderstanding.

But it’s because I’ve been blocked after a BB trolley goes on a “OMG I can’t believe you just said that” tear about their interpretation of what I said, that I was cautious to spell it out. Ultimately, being blocked from BoingBoing’s BBS is less than nothing, but it still irks me when oh my God that’s not what I said but I can’t respond because I’m blocked.

And as I brought up elsewhere in the thread, the GamerGate/dudebro camp is hardly alone in this, with examples of companies being brigaded because hey, some random Twitter person said that some random company has a racist HR manager. In one particular case, the angry Internet horde got that one wrong, twice.

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Because you apparently have no qualms about calling other people “shitheads,” it confused me when you said you refuse to align with a side in Chill Gamers vs. Sealion Shitheads .

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Hey, she makes good points. But if she didn’t have her tweets protected, I’d link to a few, because every once in a while she’ll go on an angry tear that will leave you wondering, “What the fuck was that all about?”

Unfortunately, the reason she’s taken it down because the angry Internet horde decided to go after her.

rant

Way to go, guys. Shanley’s a victim of harassment. You’ve lost the moral high ground, dudes. She says it’s been terrifying. I don’t doubt it. I don’t care how much of an ass she is; the horde is after her now so there goes anything resembling superiority. Bam. She doxxed Milo? Well, you guys doxxed her. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Two wrongs are just two wrongs.

At this point, does anyone care that she tried to get Linus Torvalds kicked off of his own project? I kinda agree with her about him; he’s an abusive asshole. Does anyone care that this is clickbait drivel? Probably not.

BTW, when I search for “C is for”, the top result is Cookie Monster. Most of the results for “python is for asperger geeks” result in articles referencing a book talking about Aspergers and Monty Python. The Slashdot comment referenced was a low-rated comment responding to a comment about the review author’s choice of using female-as-default when referring to a generic Python developer, in a review from five years ago.

But again, none of this matters at this point, because the horde has decided that making Shanley’s life miserable will accomplish great things and will prove that the Internet dickwads have the high ground…

/rant

The “clickbait” link is broken, so I didn’t catch your references there.

Months ago, when I was trying to track down where the term “social justice warrior” came from, the oldest usage I could find was a group of leftists criticizing Shanley and some other writers from Model View Culture for their tactics in attacking leftists on Twitter and Tumblr. I’m not associated with that first group of leftists – too damned smug and snarky, really – but the people Shanley and crew had gone after were good activists and journalists I highly respect. Shanley and her associates often express ideas that I strongly agree with, and ideas that are too often ignored or maligned, but they seem to strike out their positions as absolutes, and take them to absurd conclusions. However, it often seems as if, for all the apparent radicalism, they’re especially keen to attack anyone who criticizes the Obama administration from a left perspective.

One problem with that Medium article you linked above is that the author doesn’t ask about the funding model Model View Culture. Patronage is always a critical political question, especially if you consider the phenomenon of NGO-ization, and it’s an obvious thing to ask about for a journal that is supposed to be independent of the incestuous financial relationships of Silicon Valley.

If I were a conspiracy-theorist type, I’d wonder if this was all an attempt to make real leftists look bad…

I’ve had some vertigo-inducing encounters with conspiracy theories lately, closely related to this stuff, so I’m trying to be careful.

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Well, we did have ultra-reliable source weev recently inform us that Kane is actually a white supremacist who if on the “left” just because she’s trolling. Trust me, we can trust weev.