Yes, God says we should brutally physically attack gay people as a way of showing them the error of their ways /s
They will know we are Christians by our love
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By our love!
By our love!
Yes, they’ll kno-ow we are Christians by our love.
Damn, I’d forgotten I knew that.
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I can always rely on the “our island is the only one” folks to come out.
It feels really tolerant and welcoming over there.
I’ve wouldn’t characterize it as a prepared speech. She was trying to express something emotional and difficult that made her feel vulnerable. Writing that kind of thing down really helps a person who feels uncertain get to the meat of what they want to say without withering from embarrassment or choking. Therapists reccommend it when a client is trying to tell a loved one how they feel. If she had read a poem she composed earlier or performed a song she made up, would they have allowed that? What about reading a quote from a book that touched her? Just because she wrote it down and read it doesn’t mean she wasn’t speaking from her heart.
Also, if was just a rules violation, there was a better way to handle it. Wait for her to finish, thank her for honesty, and then remind everyone to avoid “prepared speeches.” Cutting her off serves no purpose but to embarrass and shame her.
As for the “colluding adult,” if I was her parent I would be so damned proud of her bravery. I would totally want to record it. Not for some statement, but because I’d want a recording of my brave sweet kid opening up, possibly coming out publically for the first time.
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Silly me, being intolerant of intolerance.
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Still insisting on your own definitions, I see.
Explain please?
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Labeling people and calling them names because you disagree with them or are sure of your own “rightness” is a great way to create an echo chamber where you only ever hear from people that agree with you. Isn’t that exactly what secularists accuse religious people of doing?
There are sincere people available that want to help explain, but few want any of it. That sure resembles a kind of intolerance to me. Seems like it’s a human problem rather than a religion problem.
I think I’ve said what I need to say. People can believe what they want.
You do seem sincere, but we’re still waiting for you to actually explain.
Seems to me that the church, and you yourself, remain intolerant of LGTBQ+ members, but you don’t want to actually say so. Reason being, you think we’re “intolerant” of such a mere difference of opinion.
The trouble is, active intolerance of LGTBQ+ people isn’t merely another opinion, and therefore something that those with other opinions should just accept; it’s bigoted abuse. And so, I see no good reason at all to tolerate it.
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I’m not labeling anyone or calling anyone any names. I’m simply saying there’s a way to go before the Mormon Church (and a few other churches) can be welcoming toward everyone. I have nothing against them, and would like to see them sort out their issues.
It’s not disagreement. Nobody thinks it is, including you.
Yes, I’m sure of my rightness. I believe all human beings deserve basic human dignity and respect. Don’t you?
Interesting phrasing there. Who says secular people do not believe in religion, or even tolerate religion? I like religion, and think it can be used for good in the world. Religion is a deeply personal thing, and different people relate to God on different levels. It’s when religion is used to discriminate and dehumanize that it becomes an issue. Religion can be a force for love or for hate.
This is a young girl trying to figure out her life, not a political operative pushing an agenda. She deserves support and love at this time in her life. It is clear from her statement that she still wants to be Mormon, so the church shouldn’t push her away.
Instead, she gets pushed away by a church that offers her nothing in the way of support, and, if anything, implicitly encourages those who commit violence against gay people.
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Sorry buddy, but that crap doesn’t fly. There is too high a body count and too many broken lives in the wake of your views to simply treat it as a polite genteel dispassionate discussion
If your position is that certain classes of people do not deserve to be treated like human beings, or should not exist, and that your religious beliefs excuse such malicious actions, then there is no compelling reason to “tolerate” it. Not even in the spirit of civility. Moreover, there a moral obligation to oppose such views.
To “tolerate” such malice is to pretend it is something normal, acceptable and worthy of consideration. To make me complicit in your cruel views and behavior. So as a moral human being, I am obligated not to treat your views with the respect you wish.
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“Our assumptions are the only valid ones”
“Our facts are the only true ones”
“Our philosophy is the only correct one”
“Our island is the only island”
Not sure why any self-respecting person would engage in a conversation that starts with “Why do you beat your wife?”, or “Why do you belong to the wife-beater club?”
Do you deny that treating human beings with basic human dignity is the only correct position?
If so, explain why.
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Just as an aside, the chief proponents of secularism are not just atheists, but members of minority faiths who are typically subject to discrimination. Secularism was first proposed in its modern form as an integral part of the theology of Anabaptists. Separation of Church and state to protect both.
Theocrats don’t like to acknowledge that plenty of religions do not agree with them or that their views do not constitute the entirety of all religious belief.
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Not engaging with your loaded premise, sorry. You’re just insisting I come live on your island and see things exactly the way you do, on this topic at least.
I will say that no one should ever feel ashamed of their sexuality.
I’m sorry, but how is the notion that we’re all human beings deserving of love and respect “loaded”? Shouldn’t that be an island that all of us are on together?
That sounds to me like you’re in agreement with the folks you’re trying to argue with here? I think we’d all agree with that statement. It’s just that we’d like to see what the LDS church (as well as many other churches) are doing to create more tolerant and loving environments for their LBGQT members? I’m not sure how you’re taking that as an attack.
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When we all die and go to heaven, we’ll find out that the correct answer was…
…the Amish. Who are the Amish.
Who woulda thunk it?
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Ugh, enough with such canards.
Treating LGBTQ+ people with respect instead of inhumane abuse is not merely another “philosophy,” nor is it merely one among many “islands” of differing opinion.
O really? So what is your church actively doing now to reverse its long tradition of shaming and abusing those with differing sexualities?
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