Well, wuddya gonna do with creaures that can’t help but get all emotional about such things? Getting in the way like they do of men just being their natural, sperm-spewing selves and all? Why, it’s enough to make a person think – or wait, to make a man think – that there’s something unnatural about the feminine desire for a man to be honest about his actions!
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Band name
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Tumblr
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…so a tumblr about whales? >:)
That could work too, yeah.
What is it with you and these promiscuous dog-men… is that feminism speaking, or conservatism, or just an idée fixe? I just can’t tell.
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Right backatcha – what is it with all these men around here who insist on finding justification for acting like dogs (even though they’re actually men) and, you know, treating women accordingly?
If you can’t see why I find dogs a useful metaphor/analogy in this thread, I don’t know what more I can say to help you see that.
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Seems a bit unfair on dogs. They don’t try to rationalize their behaviour.
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Yeah. Maybe I should be saying something like “worse than dogs.”
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To be clear, the worse-than-dog-like actions in this part of the thread seem to be (possibly) keeping secrets from your wife about having a non-sexual arrangement with someone else, which results in benefits to the wife of a happier home life with a husband who spends more time with the family, has a better job and is more content with life. However, it’s problematic as people will very easily misinterpret the intentions of these two people. Maybe the wife knows, but if not the same applies. That may be naive, but how is it acting like a dog? Only you have mentioned sex, and the OP explicitly mentioned that this is not what it’s about. I can see a number of potential problems, but none have anything to do with acting like dogs:
- The relationship could be inherently unstable and could develop into something else.
- The issue of money could be a complicating factor.
- Keeping secrets in general can be toxic, even if you have good reasons for your actions.
- He’s supporting someone financially without his wife’s knowledge, so there could be dependency and trust issues.
- When he needs something, he thinks of the other woman, not his wife. It’s hard to tell how problematic this is, as plenty of people quite rightly go to people other than their spouse when they need to deal with particular issues.
- If/when his wife does find out, something that could have been explained easier at the start could become a big deal.
This all seems to be more to do with the fact that he’s acting very much like a human being, and people are complicated with their higher expectations and cultural ideas about emotional faithfulness. Not that these concepts are wrong, it’s just that dogs don’t have secrets and won’t feel awkward that their mate might get jealous because they spend time with a different female without having sex, and don’t want to tell her because they are afraid it might damage a relationship that they value. This could be solved by being completely open and honest (and ideally they will come to an agreement about it, but it could also not go so well), but it can also be solved by trusting each other and acting in a trustworthy manner when with other people. I don’t think he should be embarrassed about this arrangement, but I can understand his uneasiness about revealing it.
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I dunno… if you can’t share with your spouse your other relationships, is that evidence of a problem in the relationship? Maybe if the person is unhappy with being married and monogamous, they shouldn’t be married and try to find someone who is interested in a polyamorous relationship instead. The problem isn’t having friend or this kind of relationship outside of marriage, it’s not being honest with one’s partner.
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#notalldogs
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Co-sign. There now, why do some find that so hard to see?
I may have mentioned sex, but I think I stressed honesty. What hurts more, from what I’ve experienced and also gathered from others, is betrayal, and especially betrayal of intimacy by also being secretly intimate with others. Discovered relationship secrets involving others can be very painful, and sex isn’t the only kind of relationship secret.
Not revealing it is keeping a secret, about something very important. For most partners, it’s a betrayal of intimacy, which, judging by the rest of your comment, you seem to more or less understand.
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It could be, and it could be a sign that the relationship is more than you say it is. It could also just be that it’s difficult to explain without people getting the wrong end of the stick about its nature (as can be seen in this thread). If this were a guy who was definitely heterosexual and who met up with another guy under the same circumstances, would it be as problematic? It might be easier to explain, and this issue might not have come up in the first place.
I see no evidence of that, so I’m leaving that separate issue out of my thinking.
This can definitely be a problem, but I’m still not getting any justification for considering this to be acting worse than a dog (or even any explanation for the comparison). I think part of it could be different ideas about what honesty means - for some, it’s being upfront about everything. For others, it involves a lot of trust and being worthy of trust. This may be naive, but he clearly doesn’t feel that he’s acting inappropriately or breaching that trust.
If he didn’t tell his wife, I wonder why not? I’m guessing it’s because he knew it would bother her. Just what was he hiding then, and why (and no, I’m not implying that he was hiding sex)? What if she found out while it was happening? Likely she’d be hurt, which is likely why he hid it (if he did). Is he really being a good partner if he did it while knowing it would hurt her if she found out?
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Maybe or maybe not, but the wife isn’t given an opportunity to weigh in on that. There is something being kept from her. But, really, that is for her to decide if it’s a betrayal, not really us. I think @anon15383236’s question was less about assigning intent to the mans actions, more about wondering what made the relationship worth hiding in the first place. Maybe it was the monetary aspect of it? But the point is that if you’re decided to settle down with someone and be monogamous, hopefully, you’d be able to get to a point of total honest with them. If not, maybe you should leave that person, and find some other relationship that satisfies one’s needs, or maybe just not be in a relationship… I have no problem with non-monogamy or what have you, but not having it all above board I think shows a lack of respect for the other person in the relationship. And all too often, people who cheat on their spouses/partners, flip out at the slightest indication that the other person is doing the same.
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I think this is a big part of it. Women tend to be more concerned about emotional fidelity, and it may not seem like a good bet to make this public even where nothing of the sort is going on.
But the point is that if you’re decided to settle down with someone and be monogamous, hopefully, you’d be able to get to a point of total honest with them. If not, maybe you should leave that person, and find some other relationship that satisfies one’s needs, or maybe just not be in a relationship…
Maybe, but that seems very black and white. Maybe the whole issue is a damp squib, and being open would have no negative consequences, and the arrangement could continue as before. I can understand the reluctance to bet your mental health and marital happiness on that outcome though.
It’s unfortunate that people can’t be honest with each other about everything, but family life involves a lot of compromise and coming to terms with your own and your partner’s flaws, while trying not to screw up your kids and keep up with all the other responsibilities in life. Sometimes it’s understandable that people who are generally happy with their relationship put up with areas where things are imperfect, and go with what works rather than rocking the boat or taking the bet of starting from scratch.
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This.
All this is so paternalistic its amazing. All these lies and half truths and secrets, and for what? Because the wife “might” not understand correctly, and I guess the fear is, then leave? Or cause the friendship to end? Its an amazing spin to put the blame squarely on the wife, the secrets and the lies and potential fall out, its all her fault isn’t it? Its certainly not his fault for keeping secrets and having weird friendships that he knows would cause upset. Nope, its her, poor unenlightened prude of a woman, if only she could be more evolved… its for her own good that she’s kept in the dark, obviously. (seriously I’m rolling my eyes so hard here I think I hurt myself!)
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You and me both - nobody else is talking about blame.
People keep secrets from each other partly because there are no perfectly compatible people out there, and sometimes people take the path of least resistance. It’s a messy compromise, but it’s very human and doesn’t necessarily imply that you don’t care about the other person.
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Bingo.
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